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9 minutes ago, witwhiz said:

I'm ok with Koll and the Seven Year Itch.

What  bothers me about Koll was his statement to the wrestling world that he would have had four finalists and seven or eight AAs. Pretty bush league to publicly announce what you would have but didn't accomplish - particularly in wrestling where injuries, illnesses, subpar performances, opponents' overperformances, tough seeding, bad refereeing and other complications interfere with the best laid plans.

True but none of his guys were injured/dinged up going into the the week of NCAA and none got bad seeds/draws ... so ... he had that going for him.  ;_;

Edited by ionel

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40 minutes ago, ionel said:

True but none of his guys were injured/dinged up going into the the week of NCAA and none got bad seeds/draws ... so ... he had that going for him.  ;_;

Not unheard of to get injured or ill during the course of a three day tournament.  And maybe I'm missing something, but how could his guys have gotten bad seeds when they weren't in the tournament?

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16 minutes ago, witwhiz said:

Not unheard of to get injured or ill during the course of a three day tournament.  And maybe I'm missing something, but how could his guys have gotten bad seeds when they weren't in the tournament?

That's it.

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@AHamilton I get your perspective to a degree. 


For those that are engaged in a HIGHLY competitive environment, it is perfectly reasonable for a person to want certain rules changed and advocate for that change ...  but until the rules change will not disadvantage their organization / team by not working within the rules as they currently stand. 
 

To bring some levity ... Perhaps you are the kind of guy that as a coach you will call out ‘stalling’ to the ref on your own wrestler (aka Gable).  If so, cool.

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3 minutes ago, nom said:

@AHamilton I get your perspective to a degree. 


For those that are engaged in a HIGHLY competitive environment, it is perfectly reasonable for a person to want certain rules changed and advocate for that change ...  but until the rules change will not disadvantage their organization / team by not working within the rules as they currently stand. 
 

To bring some levity ... Perhaps you are the kind of guy that as a coach you will call out ‘stalling’ to the ref on your own wrestler (aka Gable).  If so, cool.

I have.  I had my own wrestler stalled out of a dual.  He came back later that year to place in the state tournament.  Learned his lesson.  The ref was a ref who had done NCAA finals and he did not have a problem making the call.  

I also know, believe it or not, a coach who is against the idea of a weight allowance.  He thinks kids should be wrestling a weight that is so comfortable that they don't need an allowance.  He refuses to let the kids on his team weigh in at the higher weight.  Although I would not do that, I do respect him sticking to his guns.

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You know your program is a success when the internet keyboard champions start carping about academic and eligibility issues.  Coaches jobs are to play by the rules and enable wrestlers to use the NCAA and any institutional rules to maximize their success.  I am not necessarily rooting for them in every match, but Cornell has been killing it in investing in and developing their program for top level NCAA and international success.   

Edited by Elevator

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59 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

I have.  I had my own wrestler stalled out of a dual.  He came back later that year to place in the state tournament.  Learned his lesson.  The ref was a ref who had done NCAA finals and he did not have a problem making the call.  

I also know, believe it or not, a coach who is against the idea of a weight allowance.  He thinks kids should be wrestling a weight that is so comfortable that they don't need an allowance.  He refuses to let the kids on his team weigh in at the higher weight.  Although I would not do that, I do respect him sticking to his guns.

Wow.  Good examples.  But .... answer me this ....  if that coach that does not like weight allowances made his feelings known, and wants that rule to change ... but let his guys use the allowance, you would not respect him and say he should shut up and can’t ask for the change?

I don’t think you would but want to be sure.

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1 hour ago, witwhiz said:

Not unheard of to get injured or ill during the course of a three day tournament.  And maybe I'm missing something, but how could his guys have gotten bad seeds when they weren't in the tournament?

note the ;_;

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20 minutes ago, nom said:

Wow.  Good examples.  But .... answer me this ....  if that coach that does not like weight allowances made his feelings known, and wants that rule to change ... but let his guys use the allowance, you would not respect him and say he should shut up and can’t ask for the change?

I don’t think you would but want to be sure.Show Reply

Oh, I would totally understand.  Just like I understand what Koll is doing.  I just don't like Koll acting as if he isn't at the forefront of the trend of stretching out kids eligibility.  I also find it very hard to believe that he doesn't think that a kid like Yianni should be allowed to take an Olympic year.

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10 minutes ago, shieldofpistis said:

Does yianni want to go 61 kg or 65 kg?

Yianni's wrestling goal is to be Olympic champion.  Can't do that at 61kg, which he probably couldn't make in any case.  Why would he want to?

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26 minutes ago, klehner said:

Yianni's wrestling goal is to be Olympic champion.  Can't do that at 61kg, which he probably couldn't make in any case.  Why would he want to?

I'm not arguing.  I am ignorant on topic and was trying to gain information.

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7 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Is Max Dean really leaving? There is a lot of chatter, but is this a certainty? 

Has it happened already?

Already happened. PSU. The rich get richer

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2 hours ago, NJDan said:

Anyway, don't we have a guy better than Dean. 

It'd be pretty funny if Dean doesn't make the starting team at PSU, thought I like Dean.

I understand the sentiment, but I think he will fill in OK.  The thing that Max has is he’s a gamer.  Historically, Penn State guys are good, and they place high bc they are that good, but I can think of two PSU guys who really outdid themselves at NCAA’s, like Ice in the veins gametime studs, those being ‘Cenzo and Cassar.  

Max blew the doors off his expectations both times at NCAA’s.  Dude has deep family pedigree, and has already done enough to have the pressure be off, so I don’t think you have to worry about Jo Smith trajectories.

Edited by Drew87

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5 hours ago, Drew87 said:

I understand the sentiment, but I think he will fill in OK.  The thing that Max has is he’s a gamer.  Historically, Penn State guys are good, and they place high bc they are that good, but I can think of two PSU guys who really outdid themselves at NCAA’s, like Ice in the veins gametime studs, those being ‘Cenzo and Cassar.  

Max blew the doors off his expectations both times at NCAA’s.  Dude has deep family pedigree, and has already done enough to have the pressure be off, so I don’t think you have to worry about Jo Smith trajectories.

He's not beating Aaron Brooks at any weight. He's going to have to wait and see where Brooks goes. Probably have to bulk up and hope he can gas Beard out. 

And, he won't be a particularly large-framed 197.

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On 5/11/2021 at 1:00 AM, Drew87 said:

 Historically, Penn State guys are good, and they place high bc they are that good, but I can think of two PSU guys who really outdid themselves at NCAA’s, like Ice in the veins gametime studs, those being ‘Cenzo and Cassar.  

 

Huh?   RBY over a stacked field.  Starocci as a frosh? Both won their last 3 matches by a total of 7 points?  Lee dominating SeaBass and over Eirman by 2 as an underdog?  The PSU record in the semis is like 90%.  Sounds like answering the bell. 

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8 minutes ago, TFBJR said:

Huh?   RBY over a stacked field.  Starocci as a frosh? Both won their last 3 matches by a total of 7 points?  Lee dominating SeaBass and over Eirman by 2 as an underdog?  The PSU record in the semis is like 90%.  Sounds like answering the bell. 

Yeah, that may just be bias on my side, I never viewed any of those wins as ones that were major upsets.  Not on the level of ‘cenzo and cassar winning their titles at least.  For that 90% win rate in the semi’s those wins were all pretty much expected.

Based on the way they wrestled previous matches it wasn’t in their favor necessarily, but was within the realm of possibility if their opponents just didn’t show up, which frankly happened for all 4 PSU opponents in the finals this year.

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2 minutes ago, Drew87 said:

Yeah, that may just be bias on my side, I never viewed any of those wins as ones that were major upsets.  Not on the level of ‘cenzo and cassar winning their titles at least.  For that 90% win rate in the semi’s those wins were all pretty much expected.

Based on the way they wrestled previous matches it wasn’t in their favor necessarily, but was within the realm of possibility if their opponents just didn’t show up, which frankly happened for all 4 PSU opponents in the finals this year.

Kind of crazy that PSU just keeps on lucking into opponents that don't "show up" for the NCAA finals...

 

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11 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Kind of crazy that PSU just keeps on lucking into opponents that don't "show up" for the NCAA finals...

 

Hahaha, nice one.  I appreciate and agree with your point over the longer term, but for this year I would say that Fix, Eierman and Kemerer did not really show up or show out for their finals matches.  Could have been just great gameplanning, but I did not see any sort of aggression out of all three of them.

Edited by Drew87

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So to recap - our newest resident expert has deemed in 2 separate threads that: 1) PSU guys do not have the fire // are not gamers, and 2) Iowa guys do not improve and are boring.  Of course every other team finishes behind these 2 for the last decade and their national semifinalists are 90%+ underdogs, so I'm guessing OSU, tOSU Cornell, and Minnesota must really suck.   

The next B1G Head Coach search can start and end with Drew it appears.  That will save the ADs a lot of effort. 

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