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I Really Enjoyed the Zalesky is on Par With Brands Era!

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Can we finally put this to bed?  Zalesky was trending towards the middle tier of the B1G and Iowa just won it 2 years in a row with a DI Championship.

1 one of these is not like the other and it has proven to be VERY dissimilar!

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I just finished reading a season on the mat not long ago and I had no idea that the Zalesky firing was as bitter as it was, and that Gable and Zalesky are not on good terms. Don't get me wrong no one is gonna be happy about being fired, but I didn't know it was like that. 

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Food for thought, results look good for Tom. A few things to ponder. Apples to apples , maybe maybe not. A little discussion is enjoyable.

1. Has Tom won a championship yet with just his recruits? If transfer ability/ options were like they were in early 2000s, TOm may still be in 2rd-5th range.

 

2. should Morningstar not get some credit.? Morningstar is the real lynch pin to PA. Good for Tom bringing him back from Wisky no doubt. If he doesn’t come back to IC, different story. Good probability some of those kids aren’t in IC. 
 

3. if we are going apple to apple results, can we say that Tom as good as he is will never be a Dan Or Carl? I mean as good as he is that’s 4 championships in 15 years. Very admirable but pale in comparison.

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23 minutes ago, Downtown Brown said:

Food for thought, results look good for Tom. A few things to ponder. Apples to apples , maybe maybe not. A little discussion is enjoyable.

1. Has Tom won a championship yet with just his recruits? If transfer ability/ options were like they were in early 2000s, TOm may still be in 2rd-5th range.

 

2. should Morningstar not get some credit.? Morningstar is the real lynch pin to PA. Good for Tom bringing him back from Wisky no doubt. If he doesn’t come back to IC, different story. Good probability some of those kids aren’t in IC. 
 

3. if we are going apple to apple results, can we say that Tom as good as he is will never be a Dan Or Carl? I mean as good as he is that’s 4 championships in 15 years. Very admirable but pale in comparison.

This is sort of like comparing Phil Mickelson to Nicklaus or Tiger. One of the best of all time, but simply not fair to compare to the clearly best 2 of all time. 

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5 hours ago, MSU158 said:

Can we finally put this to bed?  Zalesky was trending towards the middle tier of the B1G and Iowa just won it 2 years in a row with a DI Championship.

1 one of these is not like the other and it has proven to be VERY dissimilar!

Actually, Iowa has just won it ONE year in a row.

I'm a little disappointed in you today, MSU158. You're better than that.

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Just now, BadgerMon said:

Actually, Iowa has just won it ONE year in a row.

I'm a little disappointed in you today, MSU158. You're better than that.

Sorry, but learn how to read!  Iowa had just won 2 B1G's in a row with a DI Championship!

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Just now, BadgerMon said:

The point ( not my lack of reading acumen) is that you are TROLLING.

Based on what exactly?  Who am I trolling?  The people that actually made the argument that Brands isn't better than Zalesky was DESERVE to be called out.  In no way am I trolling.  

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2 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Based on what exactly?  Who am I trolling?  The people that actually made the argument that Brands isn't better than Zalesky was DESERVE to be called out.  In no way am I trolling.  

We'll never know how good Zalesky could have been at Iowa. He wasnt given the same amount of time and second chances Brands was.

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6 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

We'll never know how good Zalesky could have been at Iowa. He wasnt given the same amount of time and second chances Brands was.

There was a pretty significant reason for that.  Not only was Iowa losing duals to teams in the B1G that should have had NO chance, the last 4 years they scored 57.5, 70, 66 and 70 at NCAA's.

Under Brands:  57(his first year with just Zalesky recruits), 117.5, 96.5, 134.5, 86.5, 107.5, 73, 78.5, 84, 81, 97, 97, 76, Covid and 129.

Brands NEVER had a year as bad as those 4 and sure as hell didn't do it 4 years in a row.  On top of all that, there is a VERY strong argument against Zalesky, even when he was winning.  I mean he literally inherited much of probably the best DI team in NCAA History from that Iowa 1997 team(Gable's last year when they scored 170 and still holds the record).

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1 minute ago, MSU158 said:

There was a pretty significant reason for that.  Not only was Iowa losing duals to teams in the B1G that should have had NO chance, the last 4 years they scored 57.5, 70, 66 and 70 at NCAA's.

Under Brands:  57(his first year with just Zalesky recruits), 117.5, 96.5, 134.5, 86.5, 107.5, 73, 78.5, 84, 81, 97, 97, 76, Covid and 129.

Brands NEVER had a year as bad as those 4 and sure as hell didn't do it 4 years in a row.  On top of all that, there is a VERY strong argument against Zalesky, even when he was winning.  I mean he literally inherited much of probably the best DI team in NCAA History from that Iowa 1997 team(Gable's last year when they scored 170 and still holds the record).

 

Yes all of that is true.

but also, he wasn't given the same opportunity as Brands so you don't know how well he would have done.

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When you've got three guys who are undefeated #1 seeds go down, and two of them to guys they just beat two weeks prior - that's the result of poor coaching. The Lee and Starocci rebounds against Eierman and Kemerer show how much better the PSU staff is at technical coaching and match strategy than the Iowa staff.

I recognize this doesn't mean Zalesky was a better coach, but it is a poor reflection on the Iowa coaches nonetheless. They're still good at recruiting though!

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I think Jim Z had the program trending back the right way when he was let go after finishing 4th in NCAA. That if memory serves me right was with young guys Charlie Falck, Daniel Dennis, Alex Tsirtsis, Ryan Morningstar, Mark Perry, Chad Beatty, Phillip Keddy, Matt Fields. 
i think the culture and attitude was coming back in spite of Dan G lurking, snooping, stirring and meddling. 
Z had finally got a few assistants that were willing to work with and for him and that had to be a breath of fresh air after years of back stabs from a very capable guy that didn’t really want to help the team succeed with his whole heart, but partly wanted it to fail since he would be next in line. Crazy dynamics to think about.

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9 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

When you've got three guys who are undefeated #1 seeds go down, and two of them to guys they just beat two weeks prior - that's the result of poor coaching.

Not jumping into the Zalesky-Brands debate...  Sorry if is too much of a hijack, but I was wondering how (if at all) PSU's and Iowa's Saturday routines differed after making weight in the morning.  That's a lot of time to kill before hitting the mats for the finals.

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Zalesky was in a tough spot, following Gable.  It would have been tough for anyone to follow Gable as you'd be compared to Gable.  Brand's on the other hand, followed Zalesky, so he compared favorably.  It is what it is. 

Zalesky got another opportunity, while Brands has kept Iowa relevant. 

 

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2 hours ago, BigTenFanboy said:

 

Yes all of that is true.

but also, he wasn't given the same opportunity as Brands so you don't know how well he would have done.

And went on to do very little at osu. Great wrestler, stale head coach. 

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2 hours ago, Fletcher said:

When you've got three guys who are undefeated #1 seeds go down, and two of them to guys they just beat two weeks prior - that's the result of poor coaching. The Lee and Starocci rebounds against Eierman and Kemerer show how much better the PSU staff is at technical coaching and match strategy than the Iowa staff.

I recognize this doesn't mean Zalesky was a better coach, but it is a poor reflection on the Iowa coaches nonetheless. They're still good at recruiting though!

Marinelli was a whopping 5-0, Kemerer 7-0 and Eierman 8-0. Oh, and the other undefeated #1 seed you left off was 7-0.  Still, I would think a Covid shortened year may not be the best time to use undefeated as some major benchmark.  On top of that, 3 of the 4 #1 seeds made the Finals and 1 did actually win it without his knees!

On top of that, only 3 #1 seeds won it all and 1 of them was from Iowa.  So, there must be a lot of bad coaching in D1!  Or Eggum and Sanderson must be the best 2 Head Coaches in wrestling since ALL of their #1 seeds won it all!

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8 hours ago, MSU158 said:

Can we finally put this to bed?  Zalesky was trending towards the middle tier of the B1G and Iowa just won it 2 years in a row with a DI Championship.

1 one of these is not like the other and it has proven to be VERY dissimilar!

“Finally put to bed”? I don’t think this topic is trending as much as you think it is. When was the last time this was a big story? 

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1 minute ago, Idaho said:

“Finally put to bed”? I don’t think this topic is trending as much as you think it is. When was the last time this was a big story? 

For a while after the last NCAA Championships.  Crickets since Iowa was number 1 all of last year and this year, so I wanted to see how many of those crickets would sneak a chirp in.....

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Following a legend rarely works out well. Zalesky was destined to fail at Iowa. Same will happen at PSU when Cael hangs it up.

You don't simply replace a transcendent coach and expect the same result.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

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1 minute ago, MSU158 said:

For a while after the last NCAA Championships.  Crickets since Iowa was number 1 all of last year and this year, so I wanted to see how many of those crickets would sneak a chirp in.....

The crickets should have a statute of limitations. 

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