What's going on in Columbus?

[ShakaAloha 426]

2 hours ago, MizzouGrad said:

Biggest problem with Ohio St. has been talent identification. 

Here is some Top 10 p4p recruits they've signed recently

Jordan Decatur

Greg K

Chase Singletary 

Gavin Hoffman

In 2019, Willie ranked their class #1 and it clearly was based on high school performance. The class included:

Greg K #1 overall - Transferred out before wrestling a match.

Decatur #4 overall  - Two-year starter at the biggest hole in the roster.

Kharcla #5 overall - Looked great in freestyle before tearing ACL. Who knows how he recovers.

Quinn Kinner Top #50 overall - Non-starter at 157, another big hole for the Buckeyes.

So far, that 2019 #1 recruiting class was a monster bust and it will take several years for Ohio St. to recover unless they hit the transfer market hard and get Kharcla back healthy.

 

Can Ryan reduce or cut the schollie money allotted to Decatur, Hoffman, Kinner, and Malik to force retirement/transfer?

I would also add Echemendia to your list, even though he came after.  He has been a bust at Ohio State.

[Antitroll2828 996]

17 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

Can Ryan reduce or cut the schollie money allotted to Decatur, Hoffman, Kinner, and Malik to force retirement/transfer?

I would also add Echemendia to your list, even though he came after.  He has been a bust at Ohio State.

Kinner wasn’t on the team and I don’t think even enrolled one of the semesters, the decaturs paid their own way for most of last season before getting some scholarship money at the end but I doubt either is getting a full ride, and i don’t think optics of Ryan stealing Echemendia away from ISU, bringing him in and then the guy struggles to adapt to mat wrestling in a free shortened year and now you are going to take away his scholarship? That would be insane 

[MizzouGrad 137]

20 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

Can Ryan reduce or cut the schollie money allotted to Decatur, Hoffman, Kinner, and Malik to force retirement/transfer?

I would also add Echemendia to your list, even though he came after.  He has been a bust at Ohio State.

I have no idea how scholarships work for wrestling. If that is possible, then other programs can start negatively recruiting you pretty effectively. 

Basically the message will be from other coaches battling Ohio St. for recruits "Hey if you go there and struggle at all, they'll cut your scholarship and screw you over." 

That's a pretty effective message, especially if you are from a family that cannot assist you with college. 

Ohio St. will be fine long term because they have a good staff, great history and the best facilities in the country. But even with Paddy Gallagher at 157 next year, I don't think they are a Top 5 team for at least a couple years. They need this 2019 class to matriculate and hit big time on future recruits. 

 

 

 

[ShakaAloha 426]

8 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Kinner wasn’t on the team and I don’t think even enrolled one of the semesters, the decaturs paid their own way for most of last season before getting some scholarship money at the end but I doubt either is getting a full ride, and i don’t think optics of Ryan stealing Echemendia away from ISU, bringing him in and then the guy struggles to adapt to mat wrestling in a free shortened year and now you are going to take away his scholarship? That would be insane 

I wasn't suggesting they cut Ech.  I was just saying he is another blue chip recruit that was a bust at Ohio State.  However, there is still hope for him as he has a lot of room to improve with his mat wrestling.  

The other guys on MizzouGrad's list are what they are.  Tom needs them to matriculate, which doesn't help with 2020-21 being a free year.

[muskyjunky 21]

 

I admit , watching Ech on bottom was surprising , but to say bust or imply it is a stretch at best at this point in his college career imo . But as you noted , mat skills need to come up significantly .

Edited March 26, 2021 by muskyjunky
Misspelling

[DocBZ 194]

2 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

Can Ryan reduce or cut the schollie money allotted to Decatur, Hoffman, Kinner, and Malik to force retirement/transfer?

I would also add Echemendia to your list, even though he came after.  He has been a bust at Ohio State.

Kid was 4-1 as a true freshman no matter what his age with his only loss  to Eierman, who pinned him in a match that was 0-0 late in the 2nd period (he also injured his ankle in that match ending his season). Other guys Eierman has pinned this year....Tariq Wilson, Dylan Duncan, Parker Filius and Dresden Simon. But ya..he is a bust.

Edited March 26, 2021 by DocBZ

[IronChef 1,097]

It's impossible to evaluate Echemendia. Went 4-1 in the COVID year and got injured. Five matches isn't enough to decide if someone is any good. Karchla seems to be the real deal, and it stinks that he wasn't able to compete this season.

Decatur is in a tough spot. He's been at the wrong weight but doesn't have anywhere to go in the lineup. He should probably transfer to a team with an opening at 141.

They've definitely missed on some guys and it may take a bit to get back to the upper echelon, but they have a lot of resources at their disposal, a top tier state to recruit from, and they went 1-3-2-2-2 from 2015-2019. They have proven they are able to be a top team for a sustained period of time. I suspect they are more likely to head back up than to stay down in the 10-15 range. Depends on the recruiting they do over the next couple of years and if they can unearth some lower ranked guys who overperform. Replacing Tervel is an important hire as well.

 

[ShakaAloha 426]

55 minutes ago, DocBZ said:

Kid was 4-1 as a true freshman no matter what his age with his only loss  to Eierman, who pinned him in a match that was 0-0 late in the 2nd period (he also injured his ankle in that match ending his season). Other guys Eierman has pinned this year....Tariq Wilson, Dylan Duncan, Parker Filius and Dresden Simon. But ya..he is a bust.

I like Ech.  But based on the hype he had surrounding him coming into Ohio St. (he had his own Flo Film!), I think it's fair to say he has not lived up to expectations.  I am also having a hard time getting past his loss to D'Emilio at wrestle-offs.  A guy of Ech's caliber shouldn't be losing to D'Emilio, even if D'Emilio was a 4x HS state champ.  But calling him a bust is a bit premature.  My apologies.  I believe that he has plenty of time to turn it around, and a high ceiling for improvement in folk.  We can revisit this in 4 years.

Regarding the other guys on MizzouGrad's list, they are busts (except Karchla).  Who on that list are you confident about getting on the podium at NCAA's?  Maybe Malik his senior year?  Kerk left and Singletary is leaving, and I am not high on Decatur, Hoffman, or Kinner.

[Antitroll2828 996]

1 hour ago, ShakaAloha said:

I like Ech.  But based on the hype he had surrounding him coming into Ohio St. (he had his own Flo Film!), I think it's fair to say he has not lived up to expectations.  I am also having a hard time getting past his loss to D'Emilio at wrestle-offs.  A guy of Ech's caliber shouldn't be losing to D'Emilio, even if D'Emilio was a 4x HS state champ.  But calling him a bust is a bit premature.  My apologies.  I believe that he has plenty of time to turn it around, and a high ceiling for improvement in folk.  We can revisit this in 4 years.

Regarding the other guys on MizzouGrad's list, they are busts (except Karchla).  Who on that list are you confident about getting on the podium at NCAA's?  Maybe Malik his senior year?  Kerk left and Singletary is leaving, and I am not high on Decatur, Hoffman, or Kinner.

If they let Kinner wrestle his actual weight he d AA, he has a lot of potential and Ohio state has botched this situation from the start...wouldn’t be surprised if he transferred somewhere like rider before next season 

[ShakaAloha 426]

14 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

If they let Kinner wrestle his actual weight he d AA, he has a lot of potential and Ohio state has botched this situation from the start...wouldn’t be surprised if he transferred somewhere like rider before next season 

What is Kinner's ideal weight?  141?

[Antitroll2828 996]

1 minute ago, ShakaAloha said:

What is Kinner's ideal weight?  141?

Yea, he had a decent redshirt year there, but trying to bulk him up to 157 was ridiculous 

[Mphillips 1,732]

He had Mckenna and Pletcher in front of him? How did OSU botch that?

[Antitroll2828 996]

2 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

He had Mckenna and Pletcher in front of him? How did OSU botch that?

 they tried to suck him down to 133, then when his body couldn’t take it they said ok well let’s bulk him up to 157, in the middle of a season lol maybe you don’t want to use the word botch, but they definitely could’ve handled it better than they did 
 

I forgot his redshirt was burned .

Edited March 27, 2021 by Antitroll2828

[Greatdane67 217]

An underrated aspect of the down year is Covid-19 related.

If you look closely, this new crop does not tan as much as the old Buckeyes. That was sort of a secret weapon.

Tanning salons in Columbus have been shut down due to virus concerns.

[hammerlockthree 2,635]

Columbus doesn't have any coaches, at least not like all the other top programs. 

If Mizzo recruited like tOSU they would run the show. 

[jp157 514]

12 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

Columbus doesn't have any coaches, at least not like all the other top programs. 

If Mizzo recruited like tOSU they would run the show. 

Smith deliberately only recruits the kids who fit into his style and system.. and ways of acting. I’ve heard multiple high level experts say that he won’t get over the 3/4th place unless he starts being willing to go after more.. problematic recruits

[balanceseeker 126]

Full disclosure, I am a Buckeye Wrestling season ticket holder and pretty bias.  I  believe some of of these are legit and other's are just piling on.  I am originally from Northeast Ohio and have lived some other places as well and the idea that Cincy is better than Columbus is ridiculous.  I love Cleveland as well but for different reasons (not really an apples to apples comparison).  As I see it:

True:

-Ohio State has missed on some big time recruits including a number of elite 220s (Gardner, Camp, Singletary) as well as some others.  Some of these "misses" were related to lack of technique development while others were injuries or off the mat issues.  

-Some Ohio State wrestlers stink on bottom.  Many of them have the last name Jordan.  This is often overstated to suggest this applies to all Buckeye wrestlers but recently guys like Pletcher, Martin, Smith are outstanding mat wrestlers while historically guys like Stieber, Palmer and Jaggers were great on the mat.

-.Tom Ryan has a tendency to overhype guys and say crazy stuff before they have earned the hype.  While many like his energy it is a turnoff for others.  I like many other's bought into the Echemendia hype but I feel a little guilty for overlooking our local boy Dylan D. who showed a lot late in the year.  Maybe let the guys prove it on this level before loading up on the praise and hype.  

-Tom Ryan appears to be loyal to "his guys" to a fault.  Many of his assistant coaches came up through the Ohio State system and have similar views/training.  I think it would be beneficial to bring in an outside perspective.  The original staff of TR, Rosselli, Heskett, and Tommy was great because they all had Ohio ties but came from different programs and perspective.  

-Ohio RTC not bringing in outside athletes has hurt.  Again it's good to be loyal to your guys but also important to bring in different styles and elite guys to help with your current wrestlers development.  They seemed to get this at one time but for whatever reason (funding, competition with other RTC's) this is no longer a thing.  Hard to argue that they don't develop guys as Snyder and Stieber both trained at RTC.

 

False:

-Tom Ryan is a bad coach and tOSU has been underperforming for a long time.  I don't get this take as Ohio State as prior to this year they have been in the mix every year including winning an NCCAA team title.  They likely would have won a few more if not for historically good Penn State teams.  

-Ohio State doesn't develop talent.  Ohio State gets 9.9 schollies like everyone else.  They have had some excellent recruiting classes over the years but so have others.  How have they been so successful if they don't develop.  It's not like they had top recruiting classes every year.  Did they just "get lucky" with all those guys that won NCAA titles and became multiple time AA?

-The sky is falling.  It was a down year, that was expected.  They still return 3 AA including a finalist, 2 round of 12 guys (admittedly Rocky was a surprise), a much improved Heinselman, and Karchla.  They also have Paddy G., Shumate, and Feldman coming in and some recruiting grounds in Ohio.  I see 5 AA and a couple finalist next year.

[Housebuye 2,437]

Ohio State is a mess

 That said, just a few minor things change and this thread doesn’t exist. We’d all be praising to at least ignoring Tom Ryan  

1. Ech maybe having more time in mediocre tournaments to figure out bottom. Could’ve been huge, but who knows if that’s even possible. You’d think he’d only be working bottom, all day every day. If he figures that out, you go from the 30+ seed to top 5  

2. Karchla injury - karchla easily adds 10 points  maybe more  

3. With Karchla, maybe Smith wins the 174 spot. Either way, it could’ve led to an AA there potentially 

4. Malik could’ve AAd. He is right on par with 7-8  level guys, but so are half the qualifiers at the weight. A bit of luck and slightly better wrestling, he AAs  

5. Sasso wins. He lost, but it’s 50/50 next time  

Ohio State didn’t need all of this to happen to have a good tournament. This could’ve added 30+ points  

 

[jp157 514]

6 hours ago, balanceseeker said:

Full disclosure, I am a Buckeye Wrestling season ticket holder and pretty bias.  I  believe some of of these are legit and other's are just piling on.  I am originally from Northeast Ohio and have lived some other places as well and the idea that Cincy is better than Columbus is ridiculous.  I love Cleveland as well but for different reasons (not really an apples to apples comparison).  As I see it:

True:

-Ohio State has missed on some big time recruits including a number of elite 220s (Gardner, Camp, Singletary) as well as some others.  Some of these "misses" were related to lack of technique development while others were injuries or off the mat issues.  

-Some Ohio State wrestlers stink on bottom.  Many of them have the last name Jordan.  This is often overstated to suggest this applies to all Buckeye wrestlers but recently guys like Pletcher, Martin, Smith are outstanding mat wrestlers while historically guys like Stieber, Palmer and Jaggers were great on the mat.

-.Tom Ryan has a tendency to overhype guys and say crazy stuff before they have earned the hype.  While many like his energy it is a turnoff for others.  I like many other's bought into the Echemendia hype but I feel a little guilty for overlooking our local boy Dylan D. who showed a lot late in the year.  Maybe let the guys prove it on this level before loading up on the praise and hype.  

-Tom Ryan appears to be loyal to "his guys" to a fault.  Many of his assistant coaches came up through the Ohio State system and have similar views/training.  I think it would be beneficial to bring in an outside perspective.  The original staff of TR, Rosselli, Heskett, and Tommy was great because they all had Ohio ties but came from different programs and perspective.  

-Ohio RTC not bringing in outside athletes has hurt.  Again it's good to be loyal to your guys but also important to bring in different styles and elite guys to help with your current wrestlers development.  They seemed to get this at one time but for whatever reason (funding, competition with other RTC's) this is no longer a thing.  Hard to argue that they don't develop guys as Snyder and Stieber both trained at RTC.

 

False:

-Tom Ryan is a bad coach and tOSU has been underperforming for a long time.  I don't get this take as Ohio State as prior to this year they have been in the mix every year including winning an NCCAA team title.  They likely would have won a few more if not for historically good Penn State teams.  

-Ohio State doesn't develop talent.  Ohio State gets 9.9 schollies like everyone else.  They have had some excellent recruiting classes over the years but so have others.  How have they been so successful if they don't develop.  It's not like they had top recruiting classes every year.  Did they just "get lucky" with all those guys that won NCAA titles and became multiple time AA?

-The sky is falling.  It was a down year, that was expected.  They still return 3 AA including a finalist, 2 round of 12 guys (admittedly Rocky was a surprise), a much improved Heinselman, and Karchla.  They also have Paddy G., Shumate, and Feldman coming in and some recruiting grounds in Ohio.  I see 5 AA and a couple finalist next year.

I think there is something off when you look at the program as a whole. I can’t quite articulate it into words but something seems off more than an off year. Good write up 

[flyingcement 813]

I think everything will work out fine, because Sammy Sasso called all young savages to come to Columbus.  If they have every young savage, they should be very good.  

[AHamilton 1,026]

50 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

I think everything will work out fine, because Sammy Sasso called all young savages to come to Columbus.  If they have every young savage, they should be very good.  

Sasso is an "interesting" interview.

[jbai3_12 47]

Any thoughts on Decatur being too sucked down at 133?  Would he look better at 141?

[BobbyGribbs 90]

On 3/26/2021 at 2:11 AM, shieldofpistis said:

Cincinnati always has been nicer

Northern Ky.

[shieldofpistis 156]

4 minutes ago, BobbyGribbs said:

Northern Ky.

Not quite.  Too many awful confederate flags. 

[shieldofpistis 156]

Just now, shieldofpistis said:

Not quite.  Too many awful confederate flags. 

Food is better in cincy too.  I think Newport has gone downhill despite the money put into it.