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TheOhioState

A Man in Iowa

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https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-man-in-iowa-11616442269

 

Your humble correspondent, a little sore after playing outside with the kids on a sunny weekend, is feeling even more humble considering how somebody else spent his weekend.

University of Iowa student Isaac Goffin reports for the Daily Iowan on the school's star wrestler Spencer Lee:

Eight days before Lee defeated Arizona State's Brandon Courtney on Saturday to win his third consecutive NCAA championship, the senior tore the [anterior cruciate ligament] in his left knee. Lee wrestled five matches in a three-day span on one functional leg.

"I didn't want to tell anyone because F excuses," Lee said after his final match when he revealed what he had to go through to win. "Excuses are for wusses. That was a tough tournament for me. I could barely wrestle. I could barely shoot. I can't sprawl. I believed in my coaching staff and everyone that believed in me and here I am so here you guys go."

There he was on Saturday, completing a dominating performance that would have been remarkable even with two good knees. None of the five matches was even close. Did we mention that Mr. Lee tore the ACL in his other knee on the way to winning one of his previous NCAA titles? "We call him Yoda because he can do things with his opponent that [are] just inhuman, and he just kind of uses the force," teammate Alex Marinelli tells the student-run newspaper.

Meanwhile on the East Coast, out of an abundance of caution your humble correspondent has decided to take it easy today to avoid any discomfort in the knees or lower back. Still, a walk around the neighborhood has not been ruled out.

Further west, Mr. Lee has other plans, according to the Daily Iowan:

Even with no left ACL, Lee is still focused on competing at the Olympic Trials on April 2-3 in another step to achieving another one of his goals — winning Olympic gold.

The website for the Mayo Clinic reminds that the ACL is "one of the strong bands of tissue that help connect your thigh bone (femur) to your shinbone (tibia)" and that when the ACL is injured the "knee may swell, feel unstable and become too painful to bear weight."

Don Doxsie reports in the Quad-City Times that members of Iowa's basketball team were duly impressed with the news from Mr. Lee:

"Watching that interview was one of the crazier things I've ever seen in my life,'' Iowa center Luka Garza said.

"I know that guy is tough and I know he's a champion but to hear that was something that is going to motivate me forever. It's going to be a story I tell to my kids about how you persevere..."

Mr. Garza is not alone.

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It may be a good story to tell to children, but in reality, this is a case of health mismanagement of a young adult probably on scholarship. If he were JB or some other adult professional athlete, fine, play on stilts if you want. But Lee is a junior in college. Aren't coaches supposed to look out for student athletes' wellbeing?

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2 minutes ago, kgschalhoub said:

It may be a good story to tell to children, but in reality, this is a case of health mismanagement of a young adult probably on scholarship. If he were JB or some other adult professional athlete, fine, play on stilts if you want. But Lee is a junior in college. Aren't coaches supposed to look out for student athletes' wellbeing?

Here's 10 pages of it.

 

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What do his Physicians say about his wrestling with the knees in this condition?

A risk of more harm?

If no, and he can stand it - why not?

If yes, his Coaches and the Physicians step in and prevent it.

 

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13 minutes ago, Casper said:

What do his Physicians say about his wrestling with the knees in this condition?

A risk of more harm?

If no, and he can stand it - why not?

If yes, his Coaches and the Physicians step in and prevent it.

 

Physicians recommend surgery for 1 torn ACL , so any physician who says it’s fine to wrestle without 2 should probably have their med license revoked ...competing with a torn acl makes the whole knee unstable and greatly increases the chances of damaging other stuff in the knee , mainly the meniscus 

 

For real can we take a second to think if this was a high level athlete in any major sport...imagine the outrage if a head coach played a top football prospect with a torn acl in a bowl game or b-ball coach let a potential lottery pick play in March madness with a torn acl, and the reasoning he gives is , well the athlete said he wanted to give it go, almost any coach would probably lose their job....In wrestling, we have the number 1 college prospect , competing with not 1 torn acl but both, and Yet here is a whole message board full of people throwing out one stupid argument out after the other on why it’s actually fine he’s out here still competing 

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1 minute ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Physicians recommend surgery for 1 torn ACL , so any physician who says it’s fine to wrestle without 2 should probably have their med license revoked ...competing with a torn acl makes the whole knee unstable and greatly increases the chances of damaging other stuff in the knee , mainly the meniscus 

 

For real can we take a second to think if this was a high level athlete in any major sport...imagine the outrage if a head coach played a top football prospect with a torn acl in a bowl game or b-ball coach let a potential lottery pick play in March madness with a torn acl, and the reasoning he gives is , well the athlete said he wanted to give it go, almost any coach would probably lose their job....In wrestling, we have the number 1 college prospect , competing with not 1 torn acl but both, and Yet here is a whole message board full of people throwing out one stupid argument out after the other on why it’s actually fine he’s out here still competing 

*nudge*

Don't forget the part where you pretend you're not a Penn State fan and also make excuses for their injured guys going.  Or the seeming insinuation that it's ok to let inferior wrestlers to Spencer Lee wrestle injured.

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50 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

*nudge*

Don't forget the part where you pretend you're not a Penn State fan and also make excuses for their injured guys going.  Or the seeming insinuation that it's ok to let inferior wrestlers to Spencer Lee wrestle injured.

So you can’t argue any of the substance of the post? Didn’t think so ...I asked you in a post yesterday asking you to name another athlete that’s competed with 2 torn ACLs and didn’t get an Answer from you. Probably because no sane coach in the damn world would let an athlete do that, but sure let’s make it about penn state, and insinuate I’m a fan and this is just some diabolical plan to bad mouth Iowa ...

News flash vak I don’t need to be passive aggressive to talk sh*t, I just come out and say it , but you and all the other Iowa Homers on here have made it perfectly clear you only care about your “team” winning and don’t give a damn about the athletes .  

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46 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Physicians recommend surgery for 1 torn ACL , so any physician who says it’s fine to wrestle without 2 should probably have their med license revoked ...competing with a torn acl makes the whole knee unstable and greatly increases the chances of damaging other stuff in the knee , mainly the meniscus 

 

For real can we take a second to think if this was a high level athlete in any major sport...imagine the outrage if a head coach played a top football prospect with a torn acl in a bowl game or b-ball coach let a potential lottery pick play in March madness with a torn acl, and the reasoning he gives is , well the athlete said he wanted to give it go, almost any coach would probably lose their job....In wrestling, we have the number 1 college prospect , competing with not 1 torn acl but both, and Yet here is a whole message board full of people throwing out one stupid argument out after the other on why it’s actually fine he’s out here still competing 

My family has a long history with ACLs.  My kids have 4 ACL reconstructions between them.  Both of the surgeons we consulted during this process  said that competing with a torn ACL is out of the question and they would never sign off on it.  Our experience is ACL recovery time to training full-time is 6-7 months and competition is 7-8 months.

I suppose some doctors would sign off on it, but I can't believe he/she has the patient's long term health in mind.  Hell, some doctors sign off on opiate prescriptions they know to be fraudulent and others take showers with wrestlers.  Corruption is in the nature of people.  However, Spencer Lee is not my business and I wish him  a safe OTT, where I will be rooting for several of his opponents for reasons unrelated to his knees.

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Athletes do crazy stuff all the time when they are injured.  Tony Romo came back into a game against the 49ers after he broke ribs and punctured a lung.  Ronnie Lott had the tip of a finger amputated during halftime and kept playing.  Jack Youngblood played in superbowl with a broken leg.  Kurt Angle won olympic gold with a broken neck.  Curt Schilling with his bloody sock.  A japanese gymnast competed with a broken leg in the olympics in '76.  Tiger Woods won the us open on a torn acl and broken bone in his leg.  I know of a wrestler that finished as a state runner up with a ruptured testicle.  I broke my had during sectionals one year, but had qualified for the regional.  The ortho said you can wrestle, but you probably won't win.  Oh, and you could make it worse and need surgery to repair it.  I went ahead and wrestled.

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Similar story but different choice. I wrestled HS FS National Champ Johnson from Oolagah in a dual. Moved up from 178 to 190. Was beating him like a redheaded stepchild (12-5 with 2 minutes riding time) when we rolled out of bounds with 12 seconds left in the match. I awkwardly landed on my right arm and my elbow was badly dislocated. I begged the coach to pop it back into place so I could finish the match but he refused. Sucks because I was coming on real strong and ended up losing the last half of my Jr year, I'd have been a shoe in to place at state.  The doctor told me if I wrestled again the rest of the year that I'd be risking permanent damage, and I promptly sat my ass on the sidelines the rest of the year. Took the rest of the year to recuperate my arm anyway. 

Edited by TobusRex

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Kid from Brother Martin in LA won his 4th state title, competing the entire season, with a torn ACL. Signed with AZ state, but I don’t think it panned out. 

Edited by Rocep

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2 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Physicians recommend surgery for 1 torn ACL , so any physician who says it’s fine to wrestle without 2 should probably have their med license revoked ...competing with a torn acl makes the whole knee unstable and greatly increases the chances of damaging other stuff in the knee , mainly the meniscus 

 

For real can we take a second to think if this was a high level athlete in any major sport...imagine the outrage if a head coach played a top football prospect with a torn acl in a bowl game or b-ball coach let a potential lottery pick play in March madness with a torn acl, and the reasoning he gives is , well the athlete said he wanted to give it go, almost any coach would probably lose their job....In wrestling, we have the number 1 college prospect , competing with not 1 torn acl but both, and Yet here is a whole message board full of people throwing out one stupid argument out after the other on why it’s actually fine he’s out here still competing 

I haven’t read one person argue wrestling on the ACL is fine, as you implied (context counts). The argument most have with you is this: you are not the, or any kind of authority on Spencer Lee’s activities, discussions with his coaches and family, discussions with their medical staff, nor any details as to the extent of the injuries, nor the character of the Brands and/or those close to Lee because Lee is dead set on competing......but you are completely dug in and running around here as if you are, and speaking down on anyone who sees it another way. 
 

And it’s a pretty legitimate argumentative  those are making. 

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11 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

Similar story but different choice. I wrestled HS FS National Champ Johnson from Oolagah in a dual. Moved up from 178 to 190. Was beating him like a redheaded stepchild (12-5 with 2 minutes riding time) when we rolled out of bounds with 12 seconds left in the match

Come on brother, you know freestyle doesn't count in Folkstyle.  : )

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1 hour ago, Antitroll2828 said:

So you can’t argue any of the substance of the post? Didn’t think so ...I asked you in a post yesterday asking you to name another athlete that’s competed with 2 torn ACLs and didn’t get an Answer from you. Probably because no sane coach in the damn world would let an athlete do that, but sure let’s make it about penn state, and insinuate I’m a fan and this is just some diabolical plan to bad mouth Iowa ...

News flash vak I don’t need to be passive aggressive to talk sh*t, I just come out and say it , but you and all the other Iowa Homers on here have made it perfectly clear you only care about your “team” winning and don’t give a damn about the athletes .  

 

You asked me in a post yesterday?  I've got news for you, Hemingway, I don't read everything you write.

I have no idea if any athlete has ever competed with two torn ACLs prior to Spencer Lee.  But, again, you seem to be solely focused on one athlete.  I haven't seen you post anything about Kerkvleit (until I called you out, where you then made extensive excuses for Cael and where, apparently, Kerkvleit's dad has the ability to make rules over Cael Sanderson, but Larry Lee has no input with regards to Spencer), Brady Berge, Wyatt Sheets, and the recently mentioned Mekhi Lewis.  All of your tremendous virtue-signalling (a term I do not use lightly) has all been devoted to this one cause.  Nor do I remember you screaming about Rob Koll letting Yianni wrestle on a torn ACL, or any of the other examples we have within our sport's history.  Given the tenor of, you know, almost any post I can remember you writing about Iowa and/or the Brands brothers, it's a pretty easy assumption to see why you're focusing on just the one athlete.

The...ahem...substance of your post has been torn to shreds all throughout your own post.  But let me handle it for you here.  Football players and basketball players would almost never be able to physically compete in their sport with a torn ACL.  Their sports involve too much high speed, too much change of direction, too much explosion.  Wrestling does not  Which is why we have many, many examples of wrestlers competing with torn ACLs, and many other serious injuries.

But it's so laughable to pretend that you're here for the good of the kid and your deep-seated worry for his health when you haven't said word one about any of the others.  To pretend that you care more about his health and wellness than his coach and friends, and his parents.  Go up to Larry Lee and tell him how much more you care about his son than he does.  Spare me your faux shows of care.

So yeah, until you start crusading against this throughout the NCAA, I'm going to call you out for being a hypocrite.  Because you are.

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2 hours ago, Mphillips said:

Come on brother, you know freestyle doesn't count in Folkstyle.  : )

LOL, how did you think I learned that? :D I'd get those FS boys on the mat and do bad things to them, lol. I think the kid who kindly dislocated my elbow ended up finishing 3rd in state that year. 

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2 hours ago, Bozak2018 said:

And we just saw a jr world champ try to give it a go with a wrecked shoulder.  I don't hear anybody skewering the VA Tech coaches for ruining Mekhi Lewis's shot at olympic glory or his quality of life.

Mekhi's a wrestler, he knows the risks. 

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