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Jimmy Cinnabon

Do 5th, 6th, 7th year senior still use the 9.9?

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10 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Simple question -- do those super and super-duper seniors continue to use scholarships as part of the 9.9 limit?

Depends if the coach awards them for any of those years.  Scholarships are one year contracts, not four.

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Just now, Lurker said:

Depends if the coach awards them for any of those years.  Scholarships are one year contracts, not four.

Oh really, it's a year by year decision?  I assumed if you came in on scholarship you were guaranteed 4 years, at least.

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2020-21 seniors don't count against the 2021-22 limit. Everybody else does. It's only a one-year exemption, and only for 2020-21 seniors.

Exception 1: If a 2020-21 senior transfers, he counts against the new school's 9.9.

Exception 2: If a 2020-21 senior gets a higher aid amount in 2021-22, everything above what was received in 2020-21 counts against the 9.9.

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Just now, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Oh really, it's a year by year decision?  I assumed if you came in on scholarship you were guaranteed 4 years, at least.

Nope.  One year.  Renewable each year.  Coach can decide a former scholarship is not getting the award, or that a former walk on is....each year.

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Interesting.  In that case perhaps it is not so clear cut that these 5th 6th 7th year seniors should return.  Because their coaches would have to withhold scholarship money from young star recruits to continue to fund their scholarships....  Or perhaps they have to pay out of pocket for those 2 or 3 extra years of school...Might not be worth it unless you are also getting an extra masters degree.

Edited by Jimmy Cinnabon

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I don’t know much about the intricacies of scholarship money management, but I did talk with a former 2x champ who told me that “full ride” was considered 80% for 5 years and that most high performing upperclassmen are asked to sacrifice some scholly money for the good of the program and make more money available to attract blue chip recruits. At that point, the upperclassmen are invested in the school, the program, their teammates, etc., and are happy to contribute to the continued success of the team. Also, if they are performing well in the classroom, additional academic money is usually available that might not have been there as incoming freshman. As someone stated on another thread, if a 6th or 7th year senior is in grad school and not getting money from a different source, they are really missing the boat. 

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This is why the academic part of a kid in HS is important. Coaches have to look under every rock for scholarship and grant money. Kids who have put the time in the classroom do not cost a team as much in wrestling scholarship money against the 9.9 limit. All things equal wrestling wise, you can bet the kid with the academic piece and scholarships is getting the nod. 

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3 hours ago, Lurker said:

Depends if the coach awards them for any of those years.  Scholarships are one year contracts, not four.

The Big Ten and all other power 5 schools have a rule against reducing or cancelling an athletic scholarship due to athletic performance.  Below I have copied a portion of the Big Ten press release announcing this which was almost 10 years ago.  Since then the rest of the power 5 conferences adopted similar rules.  That isn't to say stuff like that doesn't happen under the guise of another reason or happen outright at power 5 schools afterall rules are not self executing.  Complaining might get an athlete's scholarship back, but probably won't do much to enhance his/her playing opportunities.  Also non-power 5 conferences might not have the same rules.

Any student-athlete recruited to a Big Ten institution through the offer of an athletic scholarship will be guaranteed the following throughout the course of their enrollment:

  • The scholarship will neither be reduced nor cancelled provided he or she remains a member in good standing with the community, the university and the athletics department.
     
  • If a student-athlete's pursuit of an undergraduate degree is interrupted for a bona fide reason, that student-athlete may return to the institution at any time to complete his or her degree with the assistance of an athletic scholarship.

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3 hours ago, Fishbane said:

The Big Ten and all other power 5 schools have a rule against reducing or cancelling an athletic scholarship due to athletic performance.  Below I have copied a portion of the Big Ten press release announcing this which was almost 10 years ago.  Since then the rest of the power 5 conferences adopted similar rules.  That isn't to say stuff like that doesn't happen under the guise of another reason or happen outright at power 5 schools afterall rules are not self executing.  Complaining might get an athlete's scholarship back, but probably won't do much to enhance his/her playing opportunities.  Also non-power 5 conferences might not have the same rules.

Any student-athlete recruited to a Big Ten institution through the offer of an athletic scholarship will be guaranteed the following throughout the course of their enrollment:

  • The scholarship will neither be reduced nor cancelled provided he or she remains a member in good standing with the community, the university and the athletics department.
     
  • If a student-athlete's pursuit of an undergraduate degree is interrupted for a bona fide reason, that student-athlete may return to the institution at any time to complete his or her degree with the assistance of an athletic scholarship.

I was not aware, been 15 years since I worked in college. Thank you sir. 

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The scholarship situation isn't nearly as harsh as many people make it out to be.  While it is true that they are year to year, it is highly unethical to withdraw scholarship money for poor performance. Coaches commit to families and athletes for the duration as long as academics and social life are in order.  When poor performance is an issue, often some social issue is the cause.  They will definitely pull scholarship money for that. 

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8 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Interesting.  In that case perhaps it is not so clear cut that these 5th 6th 7th year seniors should return.  Because their coaches would have to withhold scholarship money from young star recruits to continue to fund their scholarships....  Or perhaps they have to pay out of pocket for those 2 or 3 extra years of school...Might not be worth it unless you are also getting an extra masters degree.

I know you’re just a troll but it’s not “2 or 3 extra years of school,” it’s only the 1 “free year” that everyone that competed this year is getting that’s different than how it’s been for years.  Redshirts aren’t new.

If ISUChip’s post is correct (and I have no reason to doubt it) then it’s actually teams like PSU that had lot of young guys this year that will have to do more juggling 4-5 years from now when all of those guys are “super duper seniors.”

oh and pay your debts

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13 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

If ISUChip’s post is correct (and I have no reason to doubt it) then it’s actually teams like PSU that had lot of young guys this year that will have to do more juggling 4-5 years from now when all of those guys are “super duper seniors.”

Tried to boil it down as much as possible. Pages 41-47 are the high points for this discussion, if you want to get knee-deep in NCAA-ese.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/compliance/d1/D1GOV_COVID-19QAGuide.pdf

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The scholarship situation isn't nearly as harsh as many people make it out to be.  While it is true that they are year to year, it is highly unethical to withdraw scholarship money for poor performance. Coaches commit to families and athletes for the duration as long as academics and social life are in order.  When poor performance is an issue, often some social issue is the cause.  They will definitely pull scholarship money for that. 
Unless your talking about SEC football.

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Lot of schools are asking alum to "sponsor a scholarship"  for the extra year for an athlete. 
Doesn't that still count against the 9.9? They changed the rule on non revenue sports and acedemic scholarships but I believe alum sponsored still counts against the limit.

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15 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Simple question -- do those super and super-duper seniors continue to use scholarships as part of the 9.9 limit?

Ask the Brands Bros.  They've got at least 5 or 6 of those on their team.

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No, if they wrestled this year as a SR and come back to the SAME institution, whatever schollie they have won’t count towards the 9.9.

However, if they are a grad transfer, the schollie they get (if any) counts for the gaining school.

I don’t know what the case is for Fresno/Stanford situations.  I am thinking NO because anyone on the transfer portal is a RECRUIT and being RECRUITED.  
 

NOTE:  there is no obligation for an institution to give the athlete next year simply because the athlete wants it. 

 

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On 3/27/2021 at 12:28 AM, jmez said:

Doesn't that still count against the 9.9? They changed the rule on non revenue sports and acedemic scholarships but I believe alum sponsored still counts against the limit.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
 

No.  It's an exemption for the unique circumstance.  

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So in short... a school can surpass 9.9 because of the freebie year... but they don't have to do it and it will be extra funds the school has to come up with if they do. 

Does this result in the rich getting to  keep lots of guys and add to their roster whereas the poor will have to stay with where they are and possibly lose guys? In the end this really just benefits the teams/schools that can do this....correct? 

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On 3/26/2021 at 7:57 AM, tigerfan said:

I don’t know much about the intricacies of scholarship money management, but I did talk with a former 2x champ who told me that “full ride” was considered 80% for 5 years and that most high performing upperclassmen are asked to sacrifice some scholly money for the good of the program and make more money available to attract blue chip recruits. At that point, the upperclassmen are invested in the school, the program, their teammates, etc., and are happy to contribute to the continued success of the team. Also, if they are performing well in the classroom, additional academic money is usually available that might not have been there as incoming freshman. As someone stated on another thread, if a 6th or 7th year senior is in grad school and not getting money from a different source, they are really missing the boat. 

Not sure if it’s still done, but camp money was funneled to the wrestlers back in the day to compensate for being short a full ride. The hours really add up over the course of two months of camps. Not sure that’s still practical given how much tuition has skyrocketed or if there’s more oversight.

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