Better Career, Wick or Bull?

[jchapman 1,322]

Wick went 3rd/4th/named AA/Oly RS the past four seasons at NCAA's.  Bull went 6th/7th/named AA/DNP at the same weight.

Bull owns a 4-1 head-to-head record, however Wick majored Bull at the 2018 NCAA's.

Wick won the 2020 U-23 NAtional Championship, and placed 4th at the 2020 Senior National Champinship.

Bull is a 3X Midlands Champ and a 3X B1G Champ.

[Jimmy Cinnabon 411]

Before opening this I would have said Bull in a slam dunk.  However Wick has indisputably performed better at NCAAs.

[Perry 1,423]

Are we still pretending midlands means what it used to? Wick by a mile in this, even with the head to heads.

[MizzouGrad 137]

Just now, Perry said:

Are we still pretending midlands means what it used to? Wick by a mile in this, even with the head to heads.

Great point. Midlands is basically Iowa and a glorified band of mid-majors. CKLV & Scuffle are much tougher tournaments.

[Jimmy Cinnabon 411]

Bull has dominated Wick head to head, but Bull has underperformed at NCAAs greatly...one might even say he's had a history of choking, especially when he's a top seed.

[jchapman 1,322]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Bull has dominated Wick head to head, but Bull has underperformed at NCAAs greatly...one might even say he's had a history of choking, especially when he's a top seed.

Without looking it up, I think head to head went:  13pt win- Wick/1pt win -Bull, 1pt win - Bull, 2pt SV win - Bull, 2pt win - Bull.

[Elevator 303]

I don't think losing to the OW this year was choking, I think that is a 50/50 match and the seeding was off because of covid and Stanford scheduling weakness.   He's good enough for multiple Big 10 conference championships and multiple top NCAA seeds, but perhaps not quite talented enough to win NCAA's.  Parity is good for the sport and when it catches up to a strong competitor that does not equate to choking.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Elevator
refinement

[Mphillips 1,669]

Wick.

Confused on why this is even a vote? AND I'm a Marinelli guy but his career will end at Iowa.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Mphillips

[uncle bernard 1,113]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Bull has dominated Wick head to head, but Bull has underperformed at NCAAs greatly...one might even say he's had a history of choking, especially when he's a top seed.

One thing to keep in mind is that both Wick and Marinelli took 2 losses at the 2019 tournament to the exact same people. Layout of the bracket was the reason the placements were different.

But you probably have to go Wick based on the placings.

[VakAttack 3,994]

If we're basing the entirety of their careers only on the NCAA tournament, I guess you'd pick Wick.  But people are laughing at Midlands titles in this scenario when Wick was in those same Brackets Marinelli was winning.  I don't really have much doubt about who the better wrestler is, though.

[wrestlingzen 61]

It's a different question, but I'd ask: which career would I want if I were in their shoes?

I'd say Bull: three Big Ten Championships is pretty awesome. It sucks to never have won an NCAA title, but that applies to both guys (even though Wick placed higher those two years). I like Bulls' wins over VJ as well--some great highlights in addition to the disappointments.

[Fishbane 170]

One should probably should include their career records in the comparison.  Wick is 85-17 .833 winning percentage.  Bull is 73-10 0.880 winning percentage.  Wick would have the edge in bonus points and percentage.

[ShakaAloha 418]

Wick.  Performance at the NCAA tournament counts the most.

[IronChef 1,078]

37 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

If we're basing the entirety of their careers only on the NCAA tournament, I guess you'd pick Wick.  But people are laughing at Midlands titles in this scenario when Wick was in those same Brackets Marinelli was winning.  I don't really have much doubt about who the better wrestler is, though.

Your opinions regarding Iowa wrestlers are no doubt sincerely held, but the extreme lack of objectivity you demonstrate whenever the Hawkeyes are involved limits the value of said opinions.

[VakAttack 3,994]

Just now, IronChef said:

Your opinions regarding Iowa wrestlers are no doubt sincerely held, but the extreme lack of objectivity you demonstrate whenever the Hawkeyes are involved limits the value of said opinions.

I just said you'd pick Wick based on NCAA placement, but what about my opinion that Marinelli is a better wrestler is based on bias?  He's beaten Wick every time except 1, has multiple wins over Vincenzo Joseph (where Wick has gotten whomped by him), has outplaced him in several tournaments, and has a better career win percentage.

[ShakaAloha 418]

6 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I just said you'd pick Wick based on NCAA placement, but what about my opinion that Marinelli is a better wrestler is based on bias?  He's beaten Wick every time except 1, has multiple wins over Vincenzo Joseph (where Wick has gotten whomped by him), has outplaced him in several tournaments, and has a better career win percentage.

Wick won the one time it mattered.  Almost 90% of the people here say Wick.

[Henry 102]

Wick has better hair.

[VakAttack 3,994]

Just now, ShakaAloha said:

Wick won the one time it mattered.  Almost 90% of the people here say Wick.

I also said you would pick Wick.  The question was not who was the better wrestler, the question asked in the poll was who had the best career.  I, personally, don't think there's much question about who the better wrestler is/was.

[ShakaAloha 418]

3 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I also said you would pick Wick.  The question was not who was the better wrestler, the question asked in the poll was who had the best career.  I, personally, don't think there's much question about who the better wrestler is/was.

Wick is better at freestyle, so I'm not too sure about Marinelli being the better wrestler.

[VakAttack 3,994]

8 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

Wick is better at freestyle, so I'm not too sure about Marinelli being the better wrestler.

I disagree.

[ShakaAloha 418]

3 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I disagree.

Yet only one of them is qualified for the Olympic Trials, and it's not AM.

How can you say that when AM has focused mostly on folk/collegiate style since he stepped onto the Iowa campus?  What are his freestyle accomplishments?

[Jim L 326]

3X Big Ten Champ matters.  If Wick had won NCAA or even made the finals then maybe there is an argument.

[Dondante88 29]

2 hours ago, IronChef said:

Your opinions regarding Iowa wrestlers are no doubt sincerely held, but the extreme lack of objectivity you demonstrate whenever the Hawkeyes are involved limits the value of said opinions.

This is hilarious coming from a PSU fan

[ShakaAloha 418]

3 hours ago, Jim L said:

3X Big Ten Champ matters.  If Wick had won NCAA or even made the finals then maybe there is an argument.

Then you're probably 1 of the 4 that voted for him.  And you probably think Marinelli had a better career than 0x Big Ten Champ, 3x NCAA Finalist, and 2x NCAA Champ Vincenzo Joseph lol.

[wrestlingphish 1,023]

5 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

Yet only one of them is qualified for the Olympic Trials, and it's not AM.

How can you say that when AM has focused mostly on folk/collegiate style since he stepped onto the Iowa campus?  What are his freestyle accomplishments?

The last freestyle tournament they both entered was 2017 Junior WTT. Wick lost in the semis to Hayden Hidlay 9-4 then Hidlay lost to Marinelli 6-0 for the right to get beat by Mark Hall. Marinelli beat the other Wick, McFadden, and Hidlay in that tournament.

 

Marinelli also outplaced him at Junior Nationals that year.

So Wick has outplaced Marinelli in two of the 9ish tournaments they have wrestled in together post high school and is 1-4 against him. Better NCAA performances? Absolutely. Better overall career? Ehhhhh.

Edited March 27, 2021 by wrestlingphish