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7 minutes ago, headshuck said:


You thought the injuries would play well. I thought strength of competition would factor in. How do you see a strike?

I was making a joke about the people (of which I am admittedly one) that think criteria is the best way to pick a winner.  It was a convoluted joke, I know.  Different types of criteria, etc.

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2 hours ago, GBR! said:

Splitting it diminishes the value award. 

If the final vote was close, then just say "in the closest vote in the history of the award... Spencer/Gable won"  

And, unless the rules allowed someone to split their vote, anyone who did split their vote should not be allowed to vote anymore.  You are picking the best, not the two best wrestlers. 

It doesn't diminish the value of the award.  False.

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38 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

It's a CYA move given everything that's going on in the American zeigeist. I think Gable is the best wrestler, but the Hodge criteria leave no doubt. I say this as a bigger fan of Gable than Lee, of whom I am a huge fan. I'm not sure what I find more tragic to our freestyle future, Lee's knees or the WWE, probably the latter.

Solid take.

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If you held a gun to my head and told me to pick the better wrestler, then I'd lie and pick one because I don't want to be shot in the head, but in reality I can't really choose who the better wrestler was THIS season. The award doesn't go to the best wrestler IF they are healthy, it goes to the best wrestler in the form that they competed in, so we have to take Spencer with no ACLs. We haven't seen a healthy Spencer since what, his sophomore year in high school? Who knows how good he really is? But we aren't here to judge a hypothetical Spencer Lee.

Based on the results this year I don't see how anyone can pick a clear winner. Gable faced better top competition, but Lee's average opponent was better than Gables average opponent. So stick a gun to my head and I go with the criteria which favors Lee. Straight up best wrestler? Nobody.

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6 minutes ago, Cruocified said:

Gable faced better top competition, but Lee's average opponent was better than Gables average opponent. So stick a gun to my head and I go with the criteria which favors Lee. Straight up best wrestler? Nobody.

Forgetting about Hodge criteria, I think Gable was more impressive as far as peak wrestling accomplishment, which is an important consideration for an abbreviated season, because he toyed with Parris, who was fresh off a win over two-time senior World medalist Gwiz. I get that was freestyle, but that is very elite competition Gable embarrassed not once but twice. Based on what I saw, If they wrestle once a day for 100 straight days, it's not unthinkable that Gable would win all of the time and might only give up a handful of TDs in the process. Through no fault of his own, Lee (again, huge fan) wrestled a bunch of prior nobodies. He wrestled one prior year AA (Rayvon Foley, 7th two years ago) all year. 

 

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6 hours ago, VakAttack said:

People are going to be big mad, lol.

"For the first time since 2001, there are co-winners of the WIN Magazine/Culture House Dan Hodge Trophy, presented by ASICS Wrestling.

Last season’s winner Spencer Lee of Iowa and Gable Steveson of Minnesota wound up in a virtual tie, with Lee winning the Fan Vote (25,712 to Steveson’s 5,202 votes), but multiple members of the formal Hodge Trophy Voting Committee voting for co-winners with both Steveson and Lee having such similar Hodge Trophy voting criteria stats."

I'm going to need to see those final vote tallies because "virtual tie" sounds a lot like "not a tie."

There you have it, another year where the winner was decided by a combination of things that include, but aren't limited to, the published criteria guidelines.

Like it or not - it makes no difference - the bottom line is proven again and again.

The winner simply isn't decided strictly by criteria. "Other" things are taken into account - these other things vary from year to year, and wrestler to wrestler.

 

(That being said, I image we'll be having a similar debate next year around this time.)

 

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The worst thing about the award is the criteria. On the one hand, it "is considered the Heisman Trophy for amateur wrestling and has been presented to the nation’s best wrestler since 1995."

Then they go and muck it up by listing criteria other than "nation's best wrestler."

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3 hours ago, Elevator said:

It doesn't diminish the value of the award.  False.

Incorrect.  The more exclusive the club the more prestige it has.  Doubling the winners every year because the decision was difficult or a close call does reduce the exclusiveness.   

What it does not do is diminish how deserving both guys are of the award.  

Nolf was also deserving, but there was only one winner that year and he finished his career without a Hodge (unfortunately). 

Happy for both guys. They both deserve it. 

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14 hours ago, nom said:

This is a crap year to declare a hodge winner.  Such limited data.  I’m totally good with this move.  Two best guys by far.  Congrats to both.

Yes - usually there is a season marathon of data to judge Hodge criteria and this year there was a 100 yard dash were two all-timers stood out equally.  Also might be good to have awards for lower weights and a separate one for upper weights.    Wrestling gives out two few awards given the inherent heroism of the competitors.  Really tough to judge whether a great upper weight is superior to a great lower weight wrestler.

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10 minutes ago, Elevator said:

Yes - usually there is a season marathon of data to judge Hodge criteria and this year there was a 100 yard dash were two all-timers stood out equally.  Also might be good to have awards for lower weights and a separate one for upper weights.    Wrestling gives out two few awards given the inherent heroism of the competitors.  Really tough to judge whether a great upper weight is superior to a great lower weight wrestler.

Too few awards? They give out 80 AAs, which is a large percentage of  D1 wrestlers.

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