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superold

Is Dake better than Taylor?

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"Gorriaran" ... not Gregorian.

 

One made a wrestling award, the others are monks or something.

 

The term Gregorian actually refers to things associated with Gregory (The Great) who gave up material wealth for a life of austerity. He became Pope Gregory and was later Sainted. Gregory lived around 500 to 600 AD and was very influential in the modernization of the old medieval Catholic Church.

 

The modern day term is most closely associated with a latin "chant" done by choirs and monks.

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Maybe that's what I was missing. Taylor has won awards for his life of austerity and is working on Sainthood. Maybe that's what he meant by Gregorian Awards?

 

Or, maybe it was a simple mistake that is completely irrelevant to the topic being discussed...

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Didn't you bring it up first? So now it's irrelevant because I merely pointed out what the award is actually called?

 

Obviously I'm not taking this seriously ... it's Friday, enjoy it.

 

The fact that he won the award multiple times = very relevant.

 

The fact that I misnamed the award he won multiple times = very irrelevant.

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Until Taylor defeats Jenkins, I'll stick to my guns, PA Fan.

 

For what its worth, I personally have some wins over guys with much, much better credentia than I had.

And I would never concede that they were better technically or strength-wise or otherwise, save one who defaulted while way ahead of me.

Nor would anyone who witnessed the matches themselves.

 

They just had better records.

YAY.

 

Fact is....Jenkins 2, Taylor donut

 

do you really think that Taylor has improved THAT much from his redshirt year to this year? Really?

The guy has been wrestling all his life. How much better can a guy get after his 15th year of competing?

 

 

and yes, everybody will remember Taylor, just as they will remember Bruce Baumgartner.

Great wrestlers, who didn't match up well in the finals with Jenkins and Banach, respectively.

But believe me, I'll remember Bubba as the guy who stepped up and showed Cael to never push anyone out like that, ever again.

 

Baumgartner, however, did stick Sweet Lou in the Midlands final one year. Taylor has no redemption.

YET. Not sure he'll ever get it.

 

I will concede, however, that he wrestles very, very well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PA-Fan....please remove the blue-tinted glasses and examine the results. Head to Head, Jenkins IS the Master.

 

And he will be until Taylor evens the score(s).

 

Taylor, as excellent as he is, has one big quality win that I can think of since entering college ( two if you count Fittery) , and that's over the oft-badly injured Andrew Howe in freestyle. We'll see if he can continue that run up at 174, IF he goes up to meet Andrew. In the meantime, he hasn't passed as many tests as you give him credit for, let alone surpassing Bubba. If Bubba kept wrestling, I suppose that Taylor would defeat him at some point. But let it be known, when the bullet hit the bone, Bubba took the risk and went to his own back to secure the back points and fall. Taylor had his butt up and his head down, interesting mistake for someone as well schooled.

 

You are posturing that Taylor would beat Bubba as a junior......well, maybe I would have stuck Fadzaev had I made the World Team...blah blah blah

 

So...then you do think Cyler Sanderson is a better wrestler than David Taylor as well? Since he also is "the master" head to head vs Taylor, also when he was a senior and Taylor a freshman. ...

 

It's laughable that you put Bubba Jenkins as a better wrestler based on that result...and conveniently ignore the other factors. Factors such as: 101-3 career record (two losses to one of the best college wrestlers ever, in extremely close matches. Also, 3 is as many losses as Bubba had as a Senior) 3 Big 10 Titles, NCAA Title and 2 NCAA Runner ups, and a few Gregorian awards. You claim I am wearing "blue-tinted glasses"...I claim you are taking one piece of evidence and giving it all the weight.

 

If Bubba were able to wrestle an upperclassmen Taylor he'd be an underdog, and deservedly so. He is not as good a wrestler as Taylor, from any position, period.

 

"We'll see if he can continue that run up at 174, IF he goes up to meet Andrew. In the meantime, he hasn't passed as many tests as you give him credit for, let alone surpassing Bubba. "

 

A few things here. It is ridiculous that you are suggesting that Taylor is under some obligation to go up to 174, and if he doesn't he is somehow avoiding Howe, or avoiding tougher competition. If anything, Howe should be down at 165 before Taylor should be up at 174 - there is no reason for him to go up, for himself or his team (they do have a returning NCAA finalist at 174 you know). Secondly, He hasn't passed as many tests as I give him credit for? What tests do I give him credit for passing? The facts are right in the beginning of my post. He has wrestled and beat everyone put in front of him during his D-1 career, save for Bubba as a freshman, and Kyle Dake (another interesting side note: the old "oh he had weak competition, so his accomplishment is not as impressive" argument...it is as stupid and asinine here as it was when people kept throwing it at Kyle Dake in the last few years). Compare Taylor's resume to Bubba's career before you start talking about Taylor needing to "surpass Bubba" - that is ludicrous. He has nothing at all to surpass. He career vs. Bubba's is like comparing a mountain vs. an ant hill. Bubba has the head to head win in the NCAA finals, and he always will. But he is not the better wrestler, nor will he be remembered as such.

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Until Taylor defeats Jenkins, I'll stick to my guns, PA Fan.

 

For what its worth, I personally have some wins over guys with much, much better credentia than I had.

And I would never concede that they were better technically or strength-wise or otherwise, save one who defaulted while way ahead of me.

Nor would anyone who witnessed the matches themselves.

 

They just had better records.

YAY.

 

Fact is....Jenkins 2, Taylor donut

 

do you really think that Taylor has improved THAT much from his redshirt year to this year? Really?

The guy has been wrestling all his life. How much better can a guy get after his 15th year of competing?

 

 

and yes, everybody will remember Taylor, just as they will remember Bruce Baumgartner.

Great wrestlers, who didn't match up well in the finals with Jenkins and Banach, respectively.

But believe me, I'll remember Bubba as the guy who stepped up and showed Cael to never push anyone out like that, ever again.

 

Baumgartner, however, did stick Sweet Lou in the Midlands final one year. Taylor has no redemption.

YET. Not sure he'll ever get it.

 

I will concede, however, that he wrestles very, very well.

 

So, basically you just repeated everything you have already said, and didn't respond to a single point I made. Interesting way to discuss something...

 

Here, I'll show you how to respond to posts, by actually responding to the things you say:

 

Do I think Taylor has improved from RS Freshman year to now - yes. And if you don't you are just being ridiculous. He now has an additional two years of training in the best room in the country, an additional two years of strength training, and additional two years of experience at the D1 level (as opposed to being his FIRST year as a RS Freshman), and not to mention Senior level freestyle experience and training he has now that he didn't then. For you to say he has not improved that much from RS Freshman year to now is just unbelievably foolish and silly. I honestly can't believe you actually attempted to argue that Taylor hasn't improved "THAT much" in the last 3 years...absurd.

 

For what it's worth, your personal anecdotes are meaningless to me. When you evaluate them as a whole - it is clear who the better wrestler is - despite the two wins Bubba has (again one being Taylor's RS year, and one being by a flash-fall in a deadlocked match his RS Freshman year).

 

Like I keep pointing out and you keep ignoring - Cyler Sanderson is also 2-0 verse Taylor...in fact one of those matches was a worse beating than Bubba ever gave him. Why do you not think he is also a better wrestler than Taylor? After all, using your own phrasing "Sanderson 2, Taylor donut" The answer is simple...because Taylor has surpassed him, clearly. The case is the same with Bubba. Despite Bubba being slightly better as a RS Senior than Taylor was as a RS Freshman (evaluating with an extremely small sample size mind you), Taylor has passed him handily.

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Like I keep pointing out and you keep ignoring - Cyler Sanderson is also 2-0 verse Taylor...in fact one of those matches was a worse beating than Bubba ever gave him. Why do you not think he is also a better wrestler than Taylor? After all, using your own phrasing "Sanderson 2, Taylor donut"

 

Wow - so now you're saying there are THREE people better than Taylor!? :o

 

DT is definately having a rough day on the Forum! :P

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All I can picture is PA sitting in a dark room with a picture of Taylor up on his PC with his face barried into DT's jock he stole from the wrestling loker room at Penn St.

 

 

EEEUUU!!!! :o

 

(However, I think you are correct)

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All I can picture is PA sitting in a dark room with a picture of Taylor up on his PC with his face barried into DT's jock he stole from the wrestling loker room at Penn St.

 

 

EEEUUU!!!! :o

 

(However, I think you are correct)

 

1. When did wrestlers start wearing jock-straps?

 

2. I suppose that thinking David Taylor is a better wrestler than Bubba Jenkins is such a fringe opinion that it warrants such an graphic picture...what am I thinking. Better than Bubba Jenkins? Nonsense. :roll:

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Yes, I think Brent Metcalf is a "better wrestler" than Caldwell...even though Caldwell beat him.

 

And Peyton and Eli...really that is your go to "gotcha" question? Peyton is much better than Eli. Much better. I want Peyton every single time...regardless of Eli having more Superbowl rings. Is Eli better than Dan Marino? Is Terry Bradshaw better than Tom Brady? This argument is just silly...amount of Superbowl rings is a single factor...not the entire evaluation system. That is why Peyton shows up on just about everyone's list of the best QBs ever...Eli? Not so much. The same idea applies to wrestling...

 

See how my logic is consistent? Yours is not so much...since you refuse to say that Cyler Sanderson is better than Taylor, even though he is also 2-0 vs. him...which is the exact same reason you state Bubba is better than Taylor.

 

This is called "cognitive dissonance". You have two completely conflicting beliefs: Bubba > Taylor since he is 2-0 vs. him head to head...but Sanderson (also 2-0 vs. Taylor) is not....and you are logically incoherent to boot.

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Is Peyton better than Eli ?

 

Who do you want, looking back, guiding your team in the Super Bowl?

 

One of them wins every time, and he isn't the one with the gaudy stats.

 

im a giants fan so i love nothing more than trolling people (like my friends) with "ELITE ELI GOT 2 RINGZ!!!!" as evidence for him being better than any other QB with 1 or less SuperBowl MVPs, but come on, even i'm going to admit that Peyton was, still is, and will be remembered as the better player.

 

i think its pretty safe to say if you were having a fantasy draft of wrestlers in their senior year, most everyone would pick Taylor over Jenkins. picking wrestlers their actual age in 2011, the answer is Jenkins.

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I never said that Cyler was better than Taylor.

You might think my logic dictates that should be, but it doesn't.

I actually haven't watched their matches, so I can't truly judge that. But until Taylor avenges that....

 

 

Why don't you just go on record as saying.....Taylor has a better record, or Taylor has a higher bonus point percentage, or something subjective that can be substantiated by fact. Or that Taylor has won more Gregorian Chant awards :lol:

 

The mark of a champion is the championship. When the chips are down, the cream rises to the top.

Caldwell owned Metcalf....what on earth are you thinking, PA? 2-0 against him ( since you don't count "exhibitions" ).

 

Peyton moves the ball,,,,but Eli is freakin' CLUTCH.

As were Bubba and Darion.

 

I'll bet that if given the chance, Coughlin would NOT trade Eli for Peyton.

 

 

And again, I think that Taylor is a marvelous wrestler. But to say he's better than someone who has whipped him twice is absurd.

 

 

Yes, I think Brent Metcalf is a "better wrestler" than Caldwell...even though Caldwell beat him.

 

And Peyton and Eli...really that is your go to "gotcha" question? Peyton is much better than Eli. Much better. I want Peyton every single time...regardless of Eli having more Superbowl rings. Is Eli better than Dan Marino? Is Terry Bradshaw better than Tom Brady? This argument is just silly...amount of Superbowl rings is a single factor...not the entire evaluation system. That is why Peyton shows up on just about everyone's list of the best QBs ever...Eli? Not so much. The same idea applies to wrestling...

 

See how my logic is consistent? Yours is not so much...since you refuse to say that Cyler Sanderson is better than Taylor, even though he is also 2-0 vs. him...which is the exact same reason you state Bubba is better than Taylor.

 

This is called "cognitive dissonance". You have two completely conflicting beliefs: Bubba > Taylor since he is 2-0 vs. him head to head...but Sanderson (also 2-0 vs. Taylor) is not....and you are logically incoherent to boot.

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I never said that Cyler was better than Taylor.

You might think my logic dictates that should be, but it doesn't.

I actually haven't watched their matches, so I can't truly judge that. But until Taylor avenges that....

 

 

Why don't you just go on record as saying.....Taylor has a better record, or Taylor has a higher bonus point percentage, or something subjective that can be substantiated by fact.

 

The mark of a champion is the championship. When the chips are down, the cream rises to the top.

Caldwell owned Metcalf....what on earth are you thinking, PA? 2-0 against him ( since you don't count "exhibitions" ).

 

Peyton moves the ball,,,,but Eli is freakin' CLUTCH.

As was Bubba and Darion.

 

I'll bet that if given the chance, Coughlin would NOT trade Eli for Peyton.

 

I know you never said Cyler is better than Taylor...that is my entire point - that you hold conflicting beliefs - because you think BJ > DT for reason X yet DT > CS despite reason X - aka you have a cognitive dissonance here. You seem to have a hard time even following a logical train of thought...let alone constructing one yourself.

 

"The mark of a champion is the championship.."- fine. But it is not the mark of the better player...or wrestler...necessarily. Eli is not a better QB than Peyton, no matter how many Superbowls he has. That is the argument you are making...and it is wrong, because there are many other factors to consider when asking "Who is better?" The same logic applies to Bubba and Taylor...Bubba is not the better wrestler - it is even more clear than the Eli v Peyton example when you consider that they have the same # of NCAA titles, but everything else Taylor blows him away - the only thing Bubba has is 2 head to head wins when Taylor was a True Freshman and RS Freshman - fine that is something...but not nearly enough to make him the better wrestler.

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Mr. Dake signed a contract and unless he does something in the MMA he is done...Mr. Taylor will hopefully end his(Senior Year) NCAA Career undefeated...For a guy that stands and waits some folks will take that smile off his face...Have a nice day!!!

 

P.S. The PSU "Train"!!!

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As for the Jenkins vs. Taylor stuff - I mean really, get serious.

 

I am serious PA-FAN

 

Ill use the same rebuttal as I did to the first guy - you must also believe Cyler Sanderson is better than Taylor. After all, he is 2-0 against Taylor...and if matches with other opponents don't matter...then he obviously must be in the same boat vs. Taylor as Bubba.

 

Well my reasoning for picking Sr. Jenkins vs Jr. Taylor was more than just the simple fact that he was 2-0 on paper, I mentioned specific strengths of Bubba that don't necessarily apply to Cyler. I also added that my hypothetical match would take place in an ncaa final, a place where I have far more reason to trust Jenkins than Cyler. Cyler went into the ncaas 4 consecutive years with a legitimate shot at making AA, and he only achieved that feat twice while never making the ncaa final. Jenkins was a far better big match wrestler than Cyler was (ncaa champ/Jr. World champ). With that said, I don't really feel the full weight of your rebuttal because I don't think it's a given that Cyler wouldn't beat a Jr. DT either. A few of the advantages I gave to Bubba also apply to Cyler. The fact that they know each other so well( likely making the matchup close/slower paced) and Cyler still has the "big brother" factor intact with his previous wins/practice room beatings could be big factors that make the match much more competitive than many think it would be. Does that mean I like Cyler's chances as much as Bubba's? No, definitely not. I wouldn't feel confident picking Cyler, but I would picking Bubba.

 

You are downplaying the level of David Taylor now with all of your analysis. It is all valid (although mostly based in opinion) concerning a rematch of Bubba vs. Taylor as a freshman....but that is not what we are talking about. We are talking about David Taylor after his freshman year/sophomore year - you know after he won the Hodge in an undefeated NCAA championship season. Taylor as a freshman vs. Taylor as a junior are not the same wrestler...he was much improved (particularly in the strength department).

 

I don't believe I'm downplaying the level of DT at all. In my hypothetical I had a Jr. DT in mind. Yes, the same DT who won the Hodge after completing an undefeated ncaa season. The thing is, there is a great chance DT would have had those exact same accolades as a freshman if he hadn't ran into Jenkins in the ncaa final!!! DT's level of domination his freshman/sophomore/junior year was very similar if you ask me.

 

Point being - Bubba vs. Taylor (freshman) you can have...close 1 td match, fine. But when you move that to Bubba vs. Taylor (Junior)...no. Bubba is completely outclassed in every position.

 

"Completely outclassed in every position"? Many people were saying that before Bubba beat him at the ncaas! It seems to me, you could have made that statement DT's freshman year before the finals for pretty much the same reasons you make it now. Right? Isn't it largely because of how he overwhelms most of his opponents? If so, didn't he do pretty much the same thing his freshman year?

 

Either way, I don't agree with that assertion. I still believe a confident, motivated Jenkins would have the same advantages he had when DT was a freshman. I still see a one, maybe two td match, and I still see Jenkins as the more explosive wrestler. I haven't seen an argument put forth that should make me rethink my opinion that a match between SR Jenkins/Jr. DT would look very similar to their ncaa finals match. Why are you so positive that it would be so different? I'd like to here an actual reason.

 

I'd also like to know how you count matches. You say Cyler is 2-0 vs DT like Bubba, but one of those matches was a PSU intrasquad dual that didn't go on Taylor's official redshirt record. Other places I've seen you mention that Dake is only 2-0 against Taylor which obviously leaves out the all star meet. Do you weigh the intrasquad dual more heavily than the all star?

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