74KG Olympic trials bracket

[Fishbane 141]

This is the bracket Flo posted for 74kg.  Is it correct?  I recall this being discussed over a year ago when the procedures were first published, but with only one semifinal bye the bracket is pretty unbalanced.  Nolf the 1 seed only has to win a single match to make the challenge bracket final and it's against the 4 or 5 seed.  It would seem that he has an easier path to make the team than Dake who has the benefit of the bye.  Also 4/5 seeds Carr and Massa have better draws than the 2 and 3 seeds.  There are similar shenanigans in the 97kg bracket. 

[Mphillips 895]

You're not the only one questioning it. Maybe it'll get fixed after weigh ins for official brackets.

[hammerlockthree 2,085]

Did the Flo bros look at the seeds and through together a bracket? 

[nhs67 1,233]

4 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

Did the Flo bros look at the seeds and through together a bracket? 

No they used the one posted by USAW.

Both are wrong, though.  Doesn't make sense to have two semi-byes.

Edited March 31 by nhs67

[nhs67 1,233]

Per their seeding guidelines, Dake gets the 2 seed with a bye to the finals.  The rest should fall like this:

Q1

1-Nolf VS BYE

7-Joseph VS 8-Wick

Q2

5-Massa VS BYE

4-Gantt VS BYE

Q3

3-Marstellar VS BYE

6-Carr VS BYE

Q4

2-Dake w/ a bye to the semis.

[nhs67 1,233]

For 97kg it should look something like this:

Q1

1-Moore VS BYE

7-Ferrari VS 8-Honis

Q2

5-Gadson VS BYE

4-Macchiavello VS BYE

Q3

3-Zillmer VS BYE

6-Waltz VS 9-Amos

Q4

2-Cox w/ a bye to the semis.

[nhs67 1,233]

That is how it SHOULD look with Dake/Cox getting the 2 and a bye to the semi-finals, then filling in the seeds  (at 7 the seeds all bump down one since you cannot put 7 in the bottom quarter).

If USAWrestling has Dake/Cox VS the bottom winner facing the top winner(essentially giving the top winner a bye as well) it would be nearly as silly as the NCAA not correcting the EIWA seed ridiculousness.

 

[Fishbane 141]

Here is a link to the selection procedures with a sample bracket. I assume this is what flo used.  The sample bracket is on page 8.

http://content.themat.com/forms/2020-OLY-MFS.pdf

[Mphillips 895]

From USA Wrestling

"There are two sit-outs at this weight with Jordan Burroughs sitting out until the day two best-of-three finals, thanks to his 2019 World medal-winning performance at the Olympic weight, and Kyle Dake receiving a bye to the semifinals..."

[nhs67 1,233]

5 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

From USA Wrestling

"There are two sit-outs at this weight with Jordan Burroughs sitting out until the day two best-of-three finals, thanks to his 2019 World medal-winning performance at the Olympic weight, and Kyle Dake receiving a bye to the semifinals..."

Right but the bracket has two spots for world medals in the semi-finals when 74 and 97 only have one, respectively.

[Mphillips 895]

1 minute ago, nhs67 said:

Right but the bracket has two spots for world medals in the semi-finals when 74 and 97 only have one, respectively.

Understood. I thought that might provide some clarity for folks.

[nhs67 1,233]

1 minute ago, Mphillips said:

Understood. I thought that might provide some clarity for folks.

I think that is actually what is annoyingly pissing people off.

Under seeding criteria:

"c. If there is one 2019 medalist from a UWW calendar event entering the Olympic
weight category, that individual will be placed in the bottom semifinal"

[Fishbane 141]

This is how I would draw the bracket.

[IronChef 812]

That is how it SHOULD look with Dake/Cox getting the 2 and a bye to the semi-finals, then filling in the seeds  (at 7 the seeds all bump down one since you cannot put 7 in the bottom quarter).
If USAWrestling has Dake/Cox VS the bottom winner facing the top winner(essentially giving the top winner a bye as well) it would be nearly as silly as the NCAA not correcting the EIWA seed ridiculousness.
 

Cox and Dake are not getting the 2 seed. They are being placed in the bottom semi without being seeded. Marsteller and Zillmer are the 2nd seeds and will be bracketed as listed. Read the document from USA Wrestling. It is not that complicated. The #1 seed gets to be in the #1 spot and avoid the world medalist until the final. The world medalist gets a bye to a later round in the tournament. It only looks weird at 74 because the weight is so small.

[IronChef 812]

This is how I would draw the bracket.

But then you would not be adhering to the established procedures on file with the USOC. They can’t just change it at the last minute.

[Fishbane 141]

Just now, IronChef said:

But then you would not be adhering to the established procedures on file with the USOC. They can’t just change it at the last minute.

I know but those are stupid.

[nhs67 1,233]

5 minutes ago, IronChef said:

Cox and Dake are not getting the 2 seed. They are being placed in the bottom semi without being seeded. Marsteller and Zillmer are the 2nd seeds and will be bracketed as listed. Read the document from USA Wrestling. It is not that complicated. The #1 seed gets to be in the #1 spot and avoid the world medalist until the final. The world medalist gets a bye to a later round in the tournament. It only looks weird at 74 because the weight is so small.

So Nolf gets a bye the same round Dake has to wrestle his semi-final?  That makes zero sense.

It's a good thing I think the gap between Dake/Cox and anyone in the field is very wide because their logic in these brackets is complete $HlT.

Edited March 31 by nhs67

[nhs67 1,233]

So the quarterfinals for the bottom will actually be the bracket equivalemt of the semi-finals on the top?  Meaning 2V3 on bottom quarter while the 4V5 are dancing?

[nhs67 1,233]

I'm not disputing what you are saying @IronChef.  I am saying if it is done that way it will perplexing to rhe likes of Dake and Cox followers who expect(ed) them to have an actual advantage to having a bye.

As-is if seeds hold the way they look both Nolf and Moore will have had one match, just as Cox and Dake will pre-challenge tourney finals.

That isn't an advantage.

[IronChef 812]

Why would Moore only have one match? He has the 8 seed then the 4/5 winner. Did someone drop out?

[Fishbane 141]

12 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

So the quarterfinals for the bottom will actually be the bracket equivalemt of the semi-finals on the top?  Meaning 2V3 on bottom quarter while the 4V5 are dancing?

I am not sure what the tiing will be, but that could be another wrinkle.  4 vs 5 on the top of the flo bracket is actually a round farther along than 3 vs 6 and 2 vs 7 in the bottom bracket despite them visually appearing in the same round on the bracket.  This is because the semi-final drop in on the top is a bye.  If they wrestle 4v5, 3v6, 2v7 at the same time  and then Nolf wrestles the winner of 4/5 at the same time the 3v6 and 2v7 winners meet that gives Nolf an advantage over Dake.  Nolf will wrestle someone who is ostensible worse (4 or 5 seed) a round earlier than Dake meets whoever emerges out of the 3v6, 2v7.  If everything goes chalk Nolf wrestles the 4 seed the same round the 2 seed beats the 3 and then sits out the next round whilst Dake wrestles the 2 seed.  So Dake will have wrestled more recently before Nolf and Dake meet in the final.

Definitely better to be Nolf than Dake in the Flo bracket.

Edited March 31 by Fishbane

[IronChef 812]

It’s possible that Nolf could have a longer break than Dake. We will see how they schedule that. However, the challenge finals will be in a different session. Let’s say Nolf goes an hour before Dake. Is there a meaningful difference between say, a four hour break and a five hour break between matches?

[nhs67 1,233]

12 minutes ago, IronChef said:

It’s possible that Nolf could have a longer break than Dake. We will see how they schedule that. However, the challenge finals will be in a different session. Let’s say Nolf goes an hour before Dake. Is there a meaningful difference between say, a four hour break and a five hour break between matches?

Won't be a difference either way, so the argument is a moot point.

I concede.

[hammerlockthree 2,085]

50 minutes ago, Fishbane said:

This is how I would draw the bracket.

this might be the best post in the history of the forum

[Fishbane 141]

32 minutes ago, IronChef said:

It’s possible that Nolf could have a longer break than Dake. We will see how they schedule that. However, the challenge finals will be in a different session. Let’s say Nolf goes an hour before Dake. Is there a meaningful difference between say, a four hour break and a five hour break between matches?

Yeah if they are different sessions it doesn't matter much.  Still it just goes to show how dumb the flo bracket is if it is in fact used in the tournament.  Nolf should have to wrestle two rounds before the final.  1) It's dumb he only has one. 2) It's dumb that if he is given an underserved bye it would be the round immediately before the final instead of an earlier round. 3) It's dumb he gets to go through an easier seed 4/5 than Dake 2/3.

Edited March 31 by Fishbane