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J'Den Cox Misses Weight

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8 hours ago, 4awrestler said:

Only logical way I would say that Cox shoulda been able to wrestle was if everyone in the bracket would have agreed that it would have been ok.... meaning they would have had to sign the a waiver. Other than that you have to stick to the rules or otherwise there’s no end to what people will want to bend.

I really like J’den and wish he and Snyder would have battled it out but I don’t understand how anyone really has a leg to stand on defending that he should have been allowed to compete. At the root of it all is a personable responsibility to 1. Be on time (which is at least 30 minutes early in my book) 2. Be on weight and don’t leave it a close cut.


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I don't think the rules were written to promote, ensure, or otherwise even remotely ponder the concept of personal responsibility, and the Olympic Trials aren't a personal responsibility contest.  I'm not suggesting Cox should or shouldn't have been allowed to wrestle, but the moralizing in this thread is a bit excessive.  Especially since we don't even know what exactly transpired.

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5 minutes ago, ionel said:

Or the fact that everyone else got the time right.

Makes you wonder did they, he and coach, not see everyone heading to the scale room?

His coach is clueless Kevin Jackson.  I wouldn't be surprised if KJ was oblivious to what was going on.

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5 minutes ago, ionel said:

Or the fact that everyone else got the time right.

Makes you wonder did they, he and coach, not see everyone heading to the scale room?

presumably he got the same communication, which is why he weighed in on time the first time. he would need to argue that a different time was communicated for his second weigh in. just speculating.

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4 minutes ago, ionel said:

Or the fact that everyone else got the time right.

Makes you wonder did they, he and coach, not see everyone heading to the scale room?

Intuitively, you'd think so, but without knowing the specifics of the weigh-in procedure, and the specifics of Cox' situation, I wouldn't assume they did.  I just don't think we know enough to judge the issue with any certainty.

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11 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

presumably he got the same communication, which is why he weighed in on time the first time. he would need to argue that a different time was communicated for his second weigh in. just speculating.

I am not aware of this "first time," when was this?

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8 hours ago, shieldofpistis said:

I think that's the point that's being loss.  Of course it would be a huge thing if Snyder invited Cox to a 2 out of 3.  But how do you redo the scenar where Cox has to wrestle mach and Moore first?  

The way Moore is wrestling its not a given Cox would win in a one match takes all.

He'd clearly have to wrestle Mach first, and then go from there, and I can easily imagine the court deciding that having to re-wrestle the challenge tourney semis places an undue burden on Mach, and potentially Moore, etc.  With that in mind, I suspect he faces an uphill court battle.

Even if the court recognizes that he was unfairly denied the opportunity to compete (itself an incredibly high bar, I imagine), that may not be enough to get him back in the bracket.

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4 minutes ago, ionel said:

I am not aware of this "first time," when was this?

I'm not either, as he could have weighed himself at his hotel, determined he needed to cut X amount of weight, and begun doing so.  All without weighing in on-site.

Or maybe the original commenter knows some detail we don't.

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22 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

His coach is clueless Kevin Jackson.  I wouldn't be surprised if KJ was oblivious to what was going on.

coach, we’re gonna be late to weigh-ins...

image.jpeg.4a81c686e0c9a0b76cdf70a356cb7857.jpeg

 

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26 minutes ago, whaletail said:

I'm not sure any of use are in a position to question his preparation or weight management, and honestly, I think USAW can review these situations within the totality of their individual circumstances, and in this case, determine whether allowing him to weigh-in a minute, or even ten minutes late, violates the spirit of the rule.

Since I'm not familiar with the details of what happened, I don't know whether he should have been allowed to compete or not, but as much as binary rules are invaluable with respect to judging, and regulating, sporting events, I think there's room for discretion in certain areas.

Although you'd never award points for a successful attack completed after time expired, for example, I can imagine instances where allowing a late weigh-in would not contravene the spirit of the rule (ensuring fair competition).

 

The spirit of your point is empathetic and hopeful, but this doesn't seem like a case where subjectivity/spirit comes into play.  It's an objective rule defined by two numbers:  97kg and 8:00 am.  You either qualify or you don't. 

And this is in the context of a zero sum game competition where everyone has to follow a uniform rule, so arguably the spirit of the rule if applied (which I think it shouldn't because it's so objective) goes the other way just as much as Cox's.

If there were some kind of natural catastrophe of hostage situation or something that blocked the roads or the elevators that made him late, then maybe they could try to find a way to craft an exception. But he and KJ just screwed up.  Doesn't make them bad people, but this was totally under their control.

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15 minutes ago, ionel said:

I am not aware of this "first time," when was this?

according to the 28 previous pgs of this thread, people say he weighed in on-time but was .4 over, then made weight at a 2nd weigh-in which was 10 minutes too late.

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9 hours ago, ionel said:

Or the fact that everyone else got the time right.

Makes you wonder did they, he and coach, not see everyone heading to the scale room?

Especially those also coached by Jackson. This is them thinking this is the only excuse that may work. Jackson is willing to be the scapegoat. 

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Especially those also coached by Jackson. This is them thinking this is the only excuse that may work. Jackson is willing to be the scapegoat. 

Yeah. If Jackson coached other guys this weekend than this is total bull****. Not saying there couldn’t haven been some form of miscommunication. But KJ is falling on his sword. And I’d hope I’d do the same.


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3 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

Cox didn’t want to wrestle. That’s the only explanation. You don’t go up a weight and then miss weight at the Olympic trials. It’s impossible.  

What?? That’s the craziest theory out of the entire 30 pages of this. Explain thyself. 

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Well explain to me how you come over weight when you went up 5 kilos from your last world title?  It just doesn’t happen. Had he gone 86 it might make sense but going up and missing weight leads me to believe he wanted a way out. No chance in hell I let this happen even at the high school state level. It just wouldn’t happen. I blame his coaches (Which he really doesn’t have one right?  Perhaps that’s part of the problem) but I put 99% of the blame on Cox. My only explanation is he didn’t want to be there. 

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29 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

Well explain to me how you come over weight when you went up 5 kilos from your last world title?  It just doesn’t happen. Had he gone 86 it might make sense but going up and missing weight leads me to believe he wanted a way out. No chance in hell I let this happen even at the high school state level. It just wouldn’t happen. I blame his coaches (Which he really doesn’t have one right?  Perhaps that’s part of the problem) but I put 99% of the blame on Cox. My only explanation is he didn’t want to be there. 

Someone already explained very plausibly how this would happen earlier in this thread. Everything J'den did makes perfect sense if he had been told the wrong weigh in time.  He came in very close to weight planning to get a moderate workout in, make weight, then go back and get rest before the semis. In college, I normally came to the arena 2-4lbs over, even when I wasn't cutting hard, and used my weight cutting to shake off the effects of travel and poor sleep by getting a good sweat and some wrestling in.  Obviously if he made the weight in 10-15 minutes later, if the reporting is right, then he wasn't freaking dying trying to get there or gone completely dry and struggling. Saying he didn't want to be there is unfounded, stupid, and something you would never ever say to that man's face or probably to any professional. 

Separately, has anyone said anything even slightly feasible for how you could possibly resolve this in the seemly long-shot that he wins arbitration? How many guys does he have to beat to get a crack at Snyder, and how can you make Snyder go out of his way to make weight and have to compete again when he didn't do anything wrong?  I was strongly in the camp of letting J'Den wrestle, but now that he didn't I don't really see a way for him to become an Olympian, unfortunately 

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7 minutes ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Someone already explained very plausibly how this would happen earlier in this thread. Everything J'den did makes perfect sense if he had been told the wrong weigh in time.  He came in very close to weight planning to get a moderate workout in, make weight, then go back and get rest before the semis. In college, I normally came to the arena 2-4lbs over, even when I wasn't cutting hard, and used my weight cutting to shake off the effects of travel and poor sleep by getting a good sweat and some wrestling in.  Obviously if he made the weight in 10-15 minutes later, if the reporting is right, then he wasn't freaking dying trying to get there or gone completely dry and struggling. Saying he didn't want to be there is unfounded, stupid, and something you would never ever say to that man's face or probably to any professional. 

Separately, has anyone said anything even slightly feasible for how you could possibly resolve this in the seemly long-shot that he wins arbitration? How many guys does he have to beat to get a crack at Snyder, and how can you make Snyder go out of his way to make weight and have to compete again when he didn't do anything wrong?  I was strongly in the camp of letting J'Den wrestle, but now that he didn't I don't really see a way for him to become an Olympian, unfortunately 

This is a really good point. Even if J'den was wronged, there is no clear way to make it right. 

But knowing this, they should have let him wrestle. The "extra" 15 minutes he was allowed to make weight gave him no advantage and caused no disadvantage to anyone else, especially if there was even a plausible explanation that his coach caused the lateness.

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In this day and age of social media you would think that Olympic organizations would have a system allowing athletes to subscribe to text alerts - "1 hour until weigh in fattie",  "2 hours until your qualifier princess",  " 3 days until your court appeal Yianni" , "5 minutes - start warming up your whining voice Dake" - they could be personalized

Or at least go old school and give everyone a beeper and and have watchers pushout "hey dumb-$hit where are you notifications"  critical notification 

Edited by swoopdown

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So has anyone come up with a credible explanation how Cox was confused about the weigh-in deadline yet every single other athlete at the Trials including athletes coached by Jackson did not have the slightest problem?

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I coached for a lot of years and had my share (not many) of guys not making weight. Almost always when you cut away all the BS they didn’t want to make it. There was no reason for Cox to not make weight and the only person to blame is Cox himself.

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3 hours ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Someone already explained very plausibly how this would happen earlier in this thread. Everything J'den did makes perfect sense if he had been told the wrong weigh in time.  He came in very close to weight planning to get a moderate workout in, make weight, then go back and get rest before the semis. In college, I normally came to the arena 2-4lbs over, even when I wasn't cutting hard, and used my weight cutting to shake off the effects of travel and poor sleep by getting a good sweat and some wrestling in.  Obviously if he made the weight in 10-15 minutes later, if the reporting is right, then he wasn't freaking dying trying to get there or gone completely dry and struggling. Saying he didn't want to be there is unfounded, stupid, and something you would never ever say to that man's face or probably to any professional. 

Separately, has anyone said anything even slightly feasible for how you could possibly resolve this in the seemly long-shot that he wins arbitration? How many guys does he have to beat to get a crack at Snyder, and how can you make Snyder go out of his way to make weight and have to compete again when he didn't do anything wrong?  I was strongly in the camp of letting J'Den wrestle, but now that he didn't I don't really see a way for him to become an Olympian, unfortunately 

It’s not stupid. It’s very plausible. Comparing what you did for a meaningless college dual to the Olympic freaking trials is stupid. I would certainly say it to his face if I were his coach. But then again if I were his coach no chance in hell this even happens. 

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