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J'Den Cox Misses Weight

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1 hour ago, IronChef said:

Why was anyone running the scale and recording weights after the weigh-in ended?

...because rules guy wasn't running the scale... he thought about the situation and said... hmmm... our World Champion doesn't wrestle for well beyond 2 hours... lets make the right decision for this situation.

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3 minutes ago, LJB said:

all i will say while waiting for all those new job postings is your screen name definitely checks out...

i will be strong for you when all the waste of time, resources, and money is over and the rest of us are cheering snyder in tokyo...

You post a lot. Maybe you should focus on your career and family and less on parsing Screennames. Might help you in multiple ways. 

Edited by MizzouGrad

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3 hours ago, jross said:

There are at least three mistakes to consider fault for. Cox for missing weight, KJ for the misinformation and USA wrestling for zero tolerance.  I echo your words at something wrong... and the zero tolerance hammer for harmless incidents is one of those things.  
 

I would rather see JB DQed for repeat eye gauging and punch clubbing than to have this weight situation with any wrestler... one is serious and is ignored... one is harmless and zero tolerance.  

Good stuff.  As long as he weighs in there is no advantage gained by doing it 15 minutes late.  Basic adult human awareness on Cox's part could have prevented this whole problem.  Basic common sense from the officials could have solved the whole thing.  One guy being clueless and a number of guys being rigid added up to a great wrestler not wrestling.

I also agree that JB appeared to go for the eyes on purpose and repeatedly.  He absolutely should have been penalized.  He would have lost a point in an MMA fight where punching is allowed.

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Just now, MizzouGrad said:

You post a lot. Maybe you should focus on your career and family and less on parsing Screennames. Might help you in multiple ways. 

i don't need to focus on my career with all these jobs about to come available at USAW...

i'm updating my resume' as we speak...

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21 minutes ago, MizzouGrad said:

People are going to lose their jobs over this if J’den presses hard enough. That much is obvious now. 
 

Someone brought up asking each member of the 97kg to basically sign off on allowing J’den to wrestle. That doesn’t seem like a bad idea in retrospect. 
 

J’den is a nice guy and might not press very hard. But if he does, USA wrestling made multiple errors that might not get the ruling overturned, but will lead to firings. 

What are the errors that were made?  You said multiple so surely you can share at least a couple of them. 

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15 minutes ago, jross said:

If Cox was scheduled to wrestle Friday at 10 AM rather than 6:30 PM, he unquestionably would had made weight by 8 AM Central.

So you think that he thought he didn't need to make weight till 4:30 pm?  I'm betting Cox knew everyone else was wrestling at 10am.  When did say Synder and Dake weigh in?

Edited by ionel

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28 minutes ago, cwillaert said:

What are the errors that were made?  You said multiple so surely you can share at least a couple of them. 

did @MizzouGrad send you a PM explaining the errors and people who would get fired????

i only ask because he failed to do so on the bbs...

i need to know which jobs will be posted soon...

making plans, baby!!!!!!

 

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31 minutes ago, boconnell said:

 

I also agree that JB appeared to go for the eyes on purpose and repeatedly.  He absolutely should have been penalized.  He would have lost a point in an MMA fight where punching is allowed.

I don’t understand how he doesn’t get called more for this. It’s basically a style at this point. Glad it worked out for an entire career, though, but it’s dirty. 

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1 minute ago, ionel said:

So you think that he thought he didn't need to make weight till 4:30 pm?  I'm betting Cox knew everyone else was wrestling at 10am.  When did say Synder and Dake weight in?

No.  Cox would have arrived at the arena earlier as part of his preparation for early round wrestling... He mental preparation would be on point...

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4 minutes ago, LJB said:

did @MizzouGrad send you a PM explaining the errors and people who would get fired????

i only ask because he failed to do so on the bbs...

i need to know which jobs will be posted soon...

making plans, baby!!!!!!

 

No message, no reply on here. Perhaps you can make the resume very generic so it pertains to all possible positions. Be sure to include "proficient in setting alarms and alerts for important events and tasks on my phone" 

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1 minute ago, cwillaert said:

No message, no reply on here. Perhaps you can make the resume very generic so it pertains to all possible positions. Be sure to include "proficient in setting alarms and alerts for important events and tasks on my phone" 

**tip of the cap**

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13 minutes ago, ionel said:

So you think that he thought he didn't need to make weight till 4:30 pm?  I'm betting Cox knew everyone else was wrestling at 10am.  When did say Synder and Dake weigh in?

<checks notes>

Before 8am.

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23 minutes ago, jross said:

If Cox was scheduled to wrestle Friday at 10 AM rather than 6:30 PM, he unquestionably would had made weight by 8 AM Central.

You don't know that.  Maybe KJ would have told him he was scheduled to wrestle at 11:00am.

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1 hour ago, jchapman said:

You don't know that.  Maybe KJ would have told him he was scheduled to wrestle at 11:00am.

Sure... you are correct... only Cox knows his mind...

IMO Cox had less motivation to be mentally dialed in at 8AM on Friday... Cox is at another level in relation to Moore ( a great talent that is getting better ) as Dake is to Nolf... He wasn't scheduled for his Snyder warmup matches until after 6:30 PM.  Had Cox been scheduled to wrestle at 10AM, he likely would be at the arena by 7AM... getting his body and mind prepared for early action... wanting to get weighed in early so as to refresh his body... making weight early regardless of KJ's misinformation...  

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How much over would be ok since he doesn't wrestle until 6:30? 10 lbs as long as he cuts and is on weight at 3pm?

I am amazed at how many on here (who have wrestled) support Cox. I am sure everyone has received that same grace period when overweight at the time of weigh in.

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4 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

What have Cox/Moore scores been in the past?

Just checked.  Olympic medalist, senior Cox beat freshman Moore 6-4.  

Any freestyle?

Edited by AHamilton

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25 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

Just checked.  Olympic medalist, senior Cox beat freshman Moore 6-4.  

Any freestyle?

Not sure between Cox and Moore in recent freestyle... Moore beat multiple Senior World Medalist Karimi recently... Nickal beats Moore... Zillmer beat Moore... It went Cox' way against Nickal and Zillmer.  The score does not always indicate the defensive domination in Cox matches.  Did you hear Snyder with that backhanded comment on Moore after the Trials... talks about not wanting to tech people and shutting his offense down in the second match.

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5 minutes ago, jross said:

Not sure between Cox and Moore in recent freestyle... Moore beat multiple Senior World Medalist Karimi recently... Nickal beats Moore... Zillmer beat Moore... It went Cox' way against Nickal and Zillmer.  The score does not always indicate the defensive domination in Cox matches.  Did you hear Snyder with that backhanded comment on Moore after the Trials... talks about not wanting to tech people and shutting his offense down in the second match.

Is it Karimi  who is Cox's biggest career win?

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3 hours ago, wnywrestling said:

Is there a list of times when everyone else weighed-in? I want to know if anyone was allowed to weigh-in at 8:01 a.m.

Someone can knock themselves out pulling the info, but I can tell you now what the answer is:  Zero.  We can safely assume that nobody who didn't make weight by the posted close of weigh-ins was allowed to wrestle in the tournament, because that's what happens at serious wrestling tournaments, just like Big Tens, NCAAs, etc.

I'll also respond to another related point off here.  My educated guess is that they decided to let him get on the scale after 8:00 and record a weight at or below 97 kg because it was a somewhat chaotic situation, and KJ and/or others were saying something unfair had happened.  Thus, knowing that there would be an appeal, an official made a snap judgment and did the fair thing and allowed someone who was an entrant in the tournament to make an official record of weight and time, to be entered into evidence in said entrant's appeal.  There's been a lot of analogizing and distinguishing in this legally thread, so I would analogize this to hitting a provisional shot in golf off the tee in case you can't find the first one.  Not a perfect comparison, but you're letting somebody do something he wouldn't ordinarily be able to do in case a possible contingency occurs.  Here, you let him weigh in shortly after 8 in case the possible contigency, that the committee gets together later in the morning and decides that Cox missed weight because someone at USAW with actual authority over the weigh-in process (not KJ, who as far as I know wasn't a weigh-in supervisor) told him he could weigh in until 8:30.  

And since I'm hitting the analogies here, I haven't seen anyone note the irony here of people arguing that Cox, who, IIRC, won his first NCAA title when Heflin (correctly) wasn't awarded a takedown because his control was achieved a half second after the buzzer, should be found to have been in compliance when he was overweight before 8:00 and only made it several minutes after 8:00.  

OK think I've got it all of my chest now.  Until the next flurry of arguments on this, or until the appeal decision hits.

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7 minutes ago, drag it said:

Someone can knock themselves out pulling the info, but I can tell you now what the answer is:  Zero.  We can safely assume that nobody who didn't make weight by the posted close of weigh-ins was allowed to wrestle in the tournament, because that's what happens at serious wrestling tournaments, just like Big Tens, NCAAs, etc.

I'll also respond to another related point off here.  My educated guess is that they decided to let him get on the scale after 8:00 and record a weight at or below 97 kg because it was a somewhat chaotic situation, and KJ and/or others were saying something unfair had happened.  Thus, knowing that there would be an appeal, an official made a snap judgment and did the fair thing and allowed someone who was an entrant in the tournament to make an official record of weight and time, to be entered into evidence in said entrant's appeal.  There's been a lot of analogizing and distinguishing in this legally thread, so I would analogize this to hitting a provisional shot in golf off the tee in case you can't find the first one.  Not a perfect comparison, but you're letting somebody do something he wouldn't ordinarily be able to do in case a possible contingency occurs.  Here, you let him weigh in shortly after 8 in case the possible contigency, that the committee gets together later in the morning and decides that Cox missed weight because someone at USAW with actual authority over the weigh-in process (not KJ, who as far as I know wasn't a weigh-in supervisor) told him he could weigh in until 8:30.  

And since I'm hitting the analogies here, I haven't seen anyone note the irony here of people arguing that Cox, who, IIRC, won his first NCAA title when Heflin (correctly) wasn't awarded a takedown because his control was achieved a half second after the buzzer, should be found to have been in compliance when he was overweight before 8:00 and only made it several minutes after 8:00.  

OK think I've got it all of my chest now.  Until the next flurry of arguments on this, or until the appeal decision hits.

The Heflin analogy is way off.  That's a within competition rule.  One side would have been given an advantage over another in competition.  Nobody has yet been able to explain what advantage Cox would have gained over the field in competition.  I say that as someone who was strongly pro "let him wrestle" and I have softened on that stance as more data came out....though I think I still would have wanted him to be allowed to wrestle.  The broken rule in this case conferred no advantage to J'Den or disadvantage to his opponents.

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32 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

Is it Karimi  who is Cox's biggest career win?

He has domestic wins over Snyder, Herbert, Taylor, and Dake.  Karami may be his best recent international win... might be a @Jon_Kozak question.  Cox has either beaten or won brackets over other world medalists... partial credentials shared below.

  • Reineris Salas Perez | Olympic 5th, World Senior Silver x2, World Senior Bronze x3
  • Alireza Mohammad Karimimachiani | Olympic 7th, World Senior Silver, World Senior Bronze x2, World Junior Gold, World Cadet Silver
  • Irakli Mtsituri
  • Alikhan Zhabrailov
  • Shamil Zubairov
  • Ivan Yankouski 
  • Dato Marsagishvili (Olympic Bronze, World Bronze)
  • Pedro Francisco Ceballos Fuentes (Olympic 5th)
  • Batyrbek Tsakulov 

 

Edited by jross

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