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J'Den Cox Misses Weight

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you do know that MacArthur left a troubling legacy and many are not quite sure if his military brilliance triumphed over his ego.  

Do you understand how many casualties would have occurred had we intentionally bombed China in Korean War?  I must side with the President on that one. 

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Just now, LJB said:

I’m no military historian, but, my guess is MacArthur would have lost his **** if one of his sergeants was 13 minutes late for an offensive...

I'm guessing that the first time you show up 13 seconds to anything in basic training you probably quickly learn to never freaking do that again. 

"But drill sergeant, it was only 13 seconds, don't be so uptight with all these rules" 

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7 minutes ago, cwillaert said:

I'm guessing that the first time you show up 13 seconds to anything in basic training you probably quickly learn to never freaking do that again. 

"But drill sergeant, it was only 13 seconds, don't be so uptight with all these rules" 

Gunny, rules were made to be broken, duh!!!!

have you not heard of general MacArthur??????

**insert knee slapping emoji**

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11 minutes ago, cwillaert said:

I'm guessing that the first time you show up 13 seconds to anything in basic training you probably quickly learn to never freaking do that again. 

"But drill sergeant, it was only 13 seconds, don't be so uptight with all these rules" 

Wow, dumbest analogy yet.

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3 hours ago, mspart said:

So again Jross, how many points would you give for a takedown?  1, 2, or 3?  After all it is cowardly to always give 2 points.  Does it depend on how hard it was worked for?  Depends on how you felt that day about mindlessly following scoring rules being cowardly?  You are not consistent in your thought.  Now I assume you agree that a takedown is 2 points, not 1 or 3 depending on the uncowardliness of the ref and table.  You, I assume, follow those rules.  You follow the rules no matter what.  In fact, I'll bet you do not take out everyone in front of you at the store checkout line, because standing there is a waste of your time following stupid rules and you are definitely not cowardly. 

Granted it is your opinion, but it is not shared by many.  Cox was in clear violation of an eligibility rule.  Period.

Knock yourself out with rules concerning 1, 2, or 3 points for a takedown.  Please ensure whatever you choose provides equal advantage across all wrestlers.  I would follow what you decide...

There is no issue waiting in line at the grocery store checkout line based on the time of arrival.  There is no problem with the rare situation that a needful person must cut in line.  There is a problem if a wantful person cuts the line (without permission/privilege) because they unwarrantedly and unfairly steal time from the others in wait.  The government and store decide the difference between needful and wantful criteria...

Help me understand how these relate to the Cox situation?   Allowing Cox to weigh-in later would create a disadvantage to him because he had less time to nourish his body.  How would allowing Cox to compete take away from the other wrestler's ability to compete for the Olympic spot?  

If there were USA W committee members that believed Cox should be allowed to wrestle, and they did not act accordingly in favor of it, they behaved as cowards.  Who knows their thoughts/actions... but I will stir the pot...
 

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4 hours ago, jross said:

How many of the 196 wrestlers were provided the wrong weigh-in time by a USA Wrestling employee?

If Dake got the wrong info from his coach and missed weight he wouldn’t have been able to wrestle. KJ was giving Cox info as his coach not as a USA employee. This employee excuse is them reaching and hoping something catches, it’s such a bs excuse. 

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7 minutes ago, jross said:

Knock yourself out with rules concerning 1, 2, or 3 points for a takedown.  Please ensure whatever you choose provides equal advantage across all wrestlers.  I would follow what you decide...

There is no issue waiting in line at the grocery store checkout line based on the time of arrival.  There is no problem with the rare situation that a needful person must cut in line.  There is a problem if a wantful person cuts the line (without permission/privilege) because they unwarrantedly and unfairly steal time from the others in wait.  The government and store decide the difference between needful and wantful criteria...

Help me understand how these relate to the Cox situation?   Allowing Cox to weigh-in later would create a disadvantage to him because he had less time to nourish his body.  How would allowing Cox to compete take away from the other wrestler's ability to compete for the Olympic spot?  

If there were USA W committee members that believed Cox should be allowed to wrestle, and they did not act accordingly in favor of it, they behaved as cowards.  Who knows their thoughts/actions... but I will stir the pot...
 

Jross thank you for taking my criticism in a good way and not lashing back.  

I do want to ask you about unfair advantages.  You are trying to make the point that Cox's tardiness did not give him unfair advantage.  

What would you say if hypothetically Cox got 2 hours longer of healthy sleep than Snyder because Cox was resting while Snyder took the cut seriously?  

I mean Snyder probably did have a harder cut because he is bigger and Cox has very healthy sweat glands.   Isn't allowing Cox to vend the rules to get more rest unfair for Snyder? 

This is just hypothetical.  I dont know how tough either cuts were.  But there is always cause and effect. 

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4 hours ago, jross said:

I'm not sure of the story but didn't Tamyra Mensah-Stock show up like 5 minutes before 8AM on Friday... rush over and make weight?  Its silly to consider that TMS might not have been able to wrestle... if she was 5 minutes later and wasn't scheduled to wrestle until Saturday night.  

Yes, and the story as relayed on FRL was that Mensah-Stock was very agitated and apoplectic about her situation.  Hmmm, why?  Because she, like every wrestler in the entire U S of A who has ever entered a significant tournament, knew that if she had been five minutes later than she was, that she wouldn't be allowed to compete, and that her Olympic dream would be over, no questions asked, no excuses accepted.

This is not complicated, nor is it esoteric.  It's what happens at every wrestling tournament.  Still waiting for anyone to provide a single example of someone who didn't make weight on time being allowed to wrestle.

All of these policy arguments which keep getting made are irrelevant.  Policy arguments only come into play if the rule is ambiguous.  The rule isn't.  The only thing that should come into play, based on what we know, is if Cox can somehow establish as a factual matter that KJ had authority over weigh-ins within the scope of his USAW duties (highly doubtful). 

That's it; until someone uncovers some unknown (and surprising) new fact, everything else is immaterial, and, in my opinion, undermines the integrity of the process in the community, and is a disservice to our 97 kg rep (the guy with the five world medals in the last five 97 kg world competitions).  

I look forward to Snyder winning a medal in Tokyo, being our 97 kg rep at Worlds and winning another medal; and Cox being our 92 kg rep at Worlds and winning his third gold medal there.  

Edited by drag it

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He lost a sig bet and now he has to have thst signature.  Just having fun with spladle
It's made me smile everytime

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.

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8 minutes ago, Show_Me said:

I asked this back on page 28 & received no responses.  Does anybody know ?

nothing will ever come from the appeal, so, you might as well get used to that now...

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3 minutes ago, LJB said:

nothing will ever come from the appeal, so, you might as well get used to that now...

I agree with this but is doesn’t answer my question.

Edited by Show_Me

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3 minutes ago, Show_Me said:

I agree with this but is doesn’t answer my question.

that is as good an answer as you will get from anyone...

expecting a timeframe on a frivolous appeal that has a snow balls chance in hell of being found worthy is an exercise in futility...

it's much better to just ignore the process as it will be a total waste of time and resources...

the only thing good that could possibly come from it, is a "coaches" dismissal...

 

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Cody Goodwin covered the Olympic Trails for the USA today network... 

https://www.columbiatribune.com/story/sports/olympics/2021/04/06/iowa-wrestling-olympic-trials-2021-jden-cox-women-freestyle-usa/7083071002/

Quote

I was in the building when J'den Cox was weighing in. Here's what I saw:

I walked in a little before 8 a.m. I'll be honest, I had no idea weigh-ins were still going on when I walked in the building. I was granted Tier 1 access to this event, which meant I could be underneath with all the athletes and coaches and had a seat on the floor. I planned to take full advantage of that opportunity, so I arrived early.

I get there, and athletes are walking back from the scales or already eating after having made weight. I take my time walking to the floor because I know some people are still making weight and it's really not my place to be there while they're stepping on the scale. Anybody who's ever made weight knows it's a chaotic scene sometimes.

But I walk out onto the floor right around 8 a.m., and I see J'den Cox and Kevin Jackson both over by the scales. I don't think much of it and am more focused on finding my seat. I do that, but I still see J'den and KJ over by the scales. Naturally, I'm curious.

Colored lights circle around the arena before the second session of the USA Wrestling Olympic Team Trials, Friday, April 2, 2021, at Dickies Arena in Fort Worth, Texas.
It's after 8 a.m. at this point, which I learned is when weigh-ins closed. But J'den is running around the floor and doing sprints to work off whatever little weight he had left to work off. KJ is pleading with the weigh-in officials to try and give him more time, presumably because he had told J'den the wrong time.

The officials listen to him. It's devastating to hear. There's legit worry in KJ's voice. J'den, meanwhile, is just going about his business. He doesn't look terribly worried at this point. I get the vibe that if he hurries and steps on the scale, the officials might give it to him, but I can't be for certain. I'm a good ways away from the conversation.

A USA Wrestling employee calls my phone at 8:06 a.m. KJ and J'den are still on the floor. I see J'den get on the scale again, and I'm not sure that he makes weight because he goes back to working weight off again while KJ continues to plead with the officials. This is about the time when I realize that something big is happening.

The last time I look at my phone, it's 8:10 a.m., and a few minutes after, J'den steps on the scale and presumably makes weight. Then he steps on another, and presumably makes weight again. Then another. The officials say something to KJ and I can't hear it but he's not happy. J'den sits in a nearby chair. The officials walk off the floor.

I see KJ console J'den and then they, too, walk off the floor. A few more minutes pass and a USA Wrestling employee comes up to me. I asked what's next. A committee is going to decide J'den's fate, they tell me. Cool. Let's see what happens. 

About an hour later, I'm working on some pre-tournament stuff when I hear that the committee voted no. I don't know who's on the committee or how many people are on it. I double check with a few USA Wrestling employees who would know about the final decision. They tell me it's a no. I check the brackets. J'den's not there.

 

Edited by jross
clean up white space

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How the appeal process would work is a bit of a mystery. There is no true precedent for Cox's situation...  Eric Bloom, Columbia Daily Tribune, published an update on April 7th at 4:28 PM.

https://www.columbiatribune.com/story/sports/2021/04/07/jden-cox-olympic-wrestling-trials-2021-former-missouri-wrestler-columbia-native-weigh-in/7127743002/

Quote

Columbia native and Missouri wrestling alum J'den Cox arrived at Dickies Arena in Fort Worth, Texas, ready for weigh-ins before the U.S. Olympic Trials. 

That's when things took an unexpected twist. Cox, who already had booked his spot in the semifinals at 97 kilograms because of previous victories, says a miscommunication is the reason he wasn't allowed to compete. 

"I was informed with the wrong times of when weigh-ins were supposed to be," Cox said during a televised interview Saturday night on NBC Sports Network. "That's just flat-out the truth. ... By a USA Wrestling employee, and that just so happens to be my coach (Kevin Jackson). I wish things were different, but you've got to take things in stride."

The 97-kilogram tournament went on without Cox. Kyle Snyder, the defending Olympic gold medalist in the weight class, secured the spot on this summer's U.S. team. 

The anticipated final between Cox and Snyder for a trip to Tokyo never happened. 

J'den Cox celebrates his win at the Wrestling World Championships on Oct. 22, 2018, in Budapest, Hungary. Cox, a two-time world champion and 2016 Olympic bronze medalist, was disqualified from the U.S. Olympic wrestling trials last Friday in Fort Worth, Texas, after not making weight on time.

Jackson said later Friday he was appealing the decision to disqualify Cox, but no further information has been released since the decision was made.

The Tribune's attempts to reach Cox and his agent have been unsuccessful. 

"It's something I'm still appealing," Cox told NBC Sports Network on Saturday. "In the grand scheme of things, I feel that I was not presented, I guess, the same opportunity, would be the word to say — I'm not really sure how to phrase it. But I think it's just miscommunication and I want the right to represent my country.  ... As far as more information, I don't know what to expect. All I know is as of right now, we're working on appealing."

 

Edited by jross
clean up white space

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I read the article and the quote you posted.  It seems like Cox did weigh in during the right time but he was over.  Then once weigh inns had already expired he made it.  But not in the allotted time. 

So its not that he missed the weigh in. He missed the weight. 

I agree Cox had a better than average shot at winning.  I think Vegas made him a dog vs. Snyder but Vegas also made Baylor dogs and look what happened. 

In the ufc when a guy misses weight he forfeits 20% of his purse.  I wish in wrestling when someone missed weight they would be disciplined by giving opponents some reward in some way, such as the person who misses wait automatically loses all tied marches. 

But thats not the way the rules are currently written.  And I actually think it took more courage to disqualify him. The national media doesn't follow wrestling. Do you realize how many ignorant people are calling USA wrestling racist because of the optics. The one person disqualified is black. That looks horrible in our cancel culture.  But everyone who has seriously wrestled understands how the weigh inns are sacred. 

This is Cox's fault.  Not USA wrestling.  And whether or not you agree with the decision I think it took courage and integrity.

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MatScouts on Rokfin says that J'Den had no sense of urgency when he got in the building (he was 2lbs over)... talking to people, etc... later J'Den was working out loosey-goosey... KJ grabbed him at 7:55 AM "J'Den Lets go!" and J'Den responded with surprise... "Calm down"... he thinks he is fine on time... gets new information... so they rush over and he is over weight.  He made weight at 8:13 AM in front of the weigh master official... within the window he was told was the time.

Allowing J'Den to make weight during the later time that USA W told him does not compare to the Russian team selection process.  Allowing J'Den to wrestle for the chance to make the team has zero impact on the youth that work hard to achieve their goals... no dreams of other wrestlers are crushed by allowing Cox to wrestle... there will be no increase in kids that reside in their parent's basement at 30 years of age because of an accountability problem at the Olympic Trials.  The USA system of having the Trials Winner be the Olympic Rep is still a fair process...

 

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yeah... teaching youth about personal accountability means nothing...

just whine and mewl when things don't go your way...

threaten litigation...

this is our country nowadyas...

USA!!!!

USA!!!!

USA!!!!

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17 minutes ago, jross said:

MatScouts on Rokfin says that J'Den had no sense of urgency when he got in the building (he was 2lbs over)... talking to people, etc... later J'Den was working out loosey-goosey... KJ grabbed him at 7:55 AM "J'Den Lets go!" and J'Den responded with surprise... "Calm down"... he thinks he is fine on time... gets new information... so they rush over and he is over weight.  He made weight at 8:13 AM in front of the weigh master official... within the window he was told was the time.

Allowing J'Den to make weight during the later time that USA W told him does not compare to the Russian team selection process.  Allowing J'Den to wrestle for the chance to make the team has zero impact on the youth that work hard to achieve their goals... no dreams of other wrestlers are crushed by allowing Cox to wrestle... there will be no increase in kids that reside in their parent's basement at 30 years of age because of an accountability problem at the Olympic Trials.  The USA system of having the Trials Winner be the Olympic Rep is still a fair process...

 

All those facts, whether accurate or not, and all of that analysis, whether sound or not, is irrelevant to the question of whether an entrant who fails to make weight on time should be allowed to wrestle (and to my continuing quest to find a relevant precedent in support of your position of a person who didn't make weight on time ever once being allowed to wrestle in a significant tournament).  

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