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J'Den Cox Misses Weight

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Fans are lobbying for USA Wrestling to make an exception. What they don’t understand is that procedures for the trials are set by the US Olympic Committee, not USA Wrestling. They do not have the authority to do so. If they did, not only would there likely be a lawsuit from the generous benefactors of the Nittany Lion Wrestling Club (where Kyle Snyder trains), they would be in hot water with the USOC. Don’t forget that wrestling was an endangered sport just a few years ago when it was proposed to be cut from the Olympics entirely. It’s a really lousy situation, and I am a huge J’den Cox fan, but there’s no move here. It’s over.

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2021/4/7/22371722/reflections-on-the-2021-usa-wrestling-olympic-team-trials

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A little inaccurate but the point the same. The NGB in facts sets the selection procedures...to be approved by the USOC. At that point it is binding and appeals would have to go through USOC appeal and arbitration process. It’s definitely accurate it wouldn’t be up for USAW to decide. It would be Cox vs USAW. 

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Someone on Twitter made a great point that will surely come up in arbitration regarding the Law of Agency.

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"...where one person appoints a person to a position which carries with it agency-like powers, those who know of the appointment are entitled to assume that there is apparent authority to do the things ordinarily entrusted to one occupying such a position. If a principal creates the impression that an agent is authorized but there is no actual authority, third parties are protected so long as they have acted reasonably."

So if you understand the relevant legal principles in play here, Cox's argument makes itself:

1) USA Wrestling appointed Kevin Jackson as its National Freestyle Development Coach.  He reports directly to Zadick.  In the press release from his hiring, KJ is quoted as saying: "I have spoken with Bill about his vision for USA Wrestling and what he sees as my role in that. We can communicate at the highest of levels." (I seriously could not have invented that quote if I tried!)

2) By virtue of USA Wrestling making this appointment, Kevin Jackson becomes a principal in the eyes of the law and has agency to communicate on behalf of USA Wrestling.

3) J'Den Cox knew that Kevin Jackson was appointed to this position.

4) Therefore, per the last sentence above, even if Kevin Jackson doesn't have the authority to change weigh-in times, if he tells a wrestler that they have until 8:30 to weigh-in, Cox is protected so long as he acts reasonably and consistently with what he was told.  All of his actions (including the fact that he successfully weighed in prior to the time he was told) suggest that he did that.  

Given the above, I think there is a better chance than most are suggesting that an arbitrator will find that the proper resolution to this matter is one that gives J'Den some opportunity to make the Olympic team.  I'm not sure what that looks like, but the law certainly seems to be on his side.

Edited by rpm002

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9 minutes ago, rpm002 said:

Someone on Twitter made a great point that will surely come up in arbitration regarding the Law of Agency.

So if you understand the relevant legal principles in play here, Cox's argument makes itself:

1) USA Wrestling appointed Kevin Jackson as its National Freestyle Development Coach.  He reports directly to Zadick.  In the press release from his hiring, KJ is quoted as saying: "I have spoken with Bill about his vision for USA Wrestling and what he sees as my role in that. We can communicate at the highest of levels." (I seriously could not have invented that quote if I tried!)

2) By virtue of USA Wrestling making this appointment, Kevin Jackson becomes a principal in the eyes of the law and has agency to communicate on behalf of USA Wrestling.

3) J'Den Cox knew that Kevin Jackson was appointed to this position.

4) Therefore, per the last sentence above, even if Kevin Jackson doesn't have the authority to change weigh-in times, if he tells a wrestler that they have until 8:30 to weigh-in, Cox is protected so long as he acts reasonably and consistently with what he was told.  All of his actions (including the fact that he successfully weighed in prior to the time he was told) suggest that he did that.  

Given the above, I think there is a better chance than most are suggesting that an arbitrator will find that the proper resolution to this matter is one that gives J'Den some opportunity to make the Olympic team.  I'm not sure what that looks like, but the law certainly seems to be on his side.

Let's say all of that is so, that KJ would be deemed an 'agent' as you/they are getting at here, there are many other things in play here, and I don't think the angle above is the only thing an arbitrator would consider:

> KJ's role to J'den Cox is not that of an administrative employee of USAW, but as his personal coach as a some time resident at the Olympic Training Center.   J'den's reliance in that regard on KJ is exactly that of Kyle Dake's was to Rob Koll.  You're example above, in my opinion, would be more relevant if it were say Pete Isais we were talking about giving information to Cox rather than KJ.

>This decision does not just effect Cox/Snyder.  Included in this would be the facts that there was no guarantee of a Cox vs Snyder.  In considering potential damages Cox someone may believe suffered, the decision potentially damages 2-3 others who did what they were supposed to do and were where they were supposed to be.  There is no way to justify a decision that goes straight to a Cox vs Snyder wrestle off.  And without that, you're asking to re-wrestle the tournament.  Unprecedented and I can't see it happening because a professional athlete didn't know (supposedly) how long he had to cut his remaining weight.  

(PS-when I say you, I'm not getting at you personally.  Just easy way to put it)

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^ this...

USAW doesn't have the best track record when it comes to ethics.  

Incidents off the top of my head: John DuPont, Dan Gable/Leroy Smith/rl, Richard Perry Incident (talk about poor judgement, and no one was held accountable/fired), Burroughs/Imar.

 

Cox would have made the weight easily. The fact he was the only one who missed the time of the weight in tells us he thought he had an hour to cut the weight.

 

Giving him 15 minutes to weigh in for a bout 8 hours later seemed like the right thing to do.

 

But, the committee said, "sorry FU".

 

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

Cox would have made the weight easily. The fact he was the only one who missed the time of the weight in tells us he thought he had an hour to cut the weight.

It may tell you that, but surely you can’t speak for everyone. For example, some might say “tells us he was the only one that needed an extra fifteen minutes to cut the weight”. Being that he was over before the deadline, and not on till after the deadline, it’s certainly supported. 

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1 hour ago, rpm002 said:

Someone on Twitter made a great point that will surely come up in arbitration regarding the Law of Agency.

So if you understand the relevant legal principles in play here, Cox's argument makes itself:

1) USA Wrestling appointed Kevin Jackson as its National Freestyle Development Coach.  He reports directly to Zadick.  In the press release from his hiring, KJ is quoted as saying: "I have spoken with Bill about his vision for USA Wrestling and what he sees as my role in that. We can communicate at the highest of levels." (I seriously could not have invented that quote if I tried!)

2) By virtue of USA Wrestling making this appointment, Kevin Jackson becomes a principal in the eyes of the law and has agency to communicate on behalf of USA Wrestling.

3) J'Den Cox knew that Kevin Jackson was appointed to this position.

4) Therefore, per the last sentence above, even if Kevin Jackson doesn't have the authority to change weigh-in times, if he tells a wrestler that they have until 8:30 to weigh-in, Cox is protected so long as he acts reasonably and consistently with what he was told.  All of his actions (including the fact that he successfully weighed in prior to the time he was told) suggest that he did that.  

Given the above, I think there is a better chance than most are suggesting that an arbitrator will find that the proper resolution to this matter is one that gives J'Den some opportunity to make the Olympic team.  I'm not sure what that looks like, but the law certainly seems to be on his side.

As I said above several times, I doubt the facts are that KJ's duties at USAW had anything to do with supervising weigh in.  It wasn't his job to tell people on behalf of USAW when weigh-in was.  It was Mr. Jones,  or whoever the person is, who communicated it to competitors and coaches.  KJ was the coach for Cox in that situation, not the USAW weigh in administrator. Mr. Jones told every competitor the correct time; KJ told the one guy he coached the wrong time, even though probably Mr.Jones told the right time to both KJ and Cox.  

The language you quoted was "apparent authority to do the things ordinarily entrusted to one occupying such a position."  KJ wasn't entrusted with administering weigh ins.  He was entrusted with telling Cox how to hit a double leg, how to lift weights, etc.

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32 minutes ago, drag it said:

As I said above several times, I doubt the facts are that KJ's duties at USAW had anything to do with supervising weigh in.  It wasn't his job to tell people on behalf of USAW when weigh-in was.  It was Mr. Jones,  or whoever the person is, who communicated it to competitors and coaches.  KJ was the coach for Cox in that situation, not the USAW weigh in administrator. Mr. Jones told every competitor the correct time; KJ told the one guy he coached the wrong time, even though probably Mr.Jones told the right time to both KJ and Cox.  

The language you quoted was "apparent authority to do the things ordinarily entrusted to one occupying such a position."  KJ wasn't entrusted with administering weigh ins.  He was entrusted with telling Cox how to hit a double leg, how to lift weights, etc.

That is a fair critique and will probably be the other side of the argument in arbitration.  Is it reasonable to infer that a statement that the "National Freestyle Development Coach" gives about weigh-ins for the biggest national freestyle wrestling event in the last several years is correct? I still would lean towards yes, but I agree that's not the only possible interpretation.

Edited by rpm002

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1 hour ago, rpm002 said:

...Given the above, I think there is a better chance than most are suggesting that an arbitrator will find that the proper resolution to this matter is one that gives J'Den some opportunity to make the Olympic team.  I'm not sure what that looks like, but the law certainly seems to be on his side.

tenor.gif

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23 minutes ago, rpm002 said:

That is a fair critique and will probably be the other side of the argument in arbitration.  Is it reasonable to infer that a statement that the "National Freestyle Development Coach" gives about weigh-ins for the biggest national freestyle wrestling event in the last several years is correct.  I still would lean towards yes, but I agree that's not the only possible interpretation.

when you take into understanding that his role and duties involve the development of the age group program “elite accelerator” and that his roles and duties have absolutely nothing to do with the administration and operation of national events, I think it makes it hard to come to that interpretation. If you want to bank on the fact he’s a USAW employee, you have to take into account what his duties are, and what departments he is in and/or responsible for. 

Edited by Lurker

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7 minutes ago, Lurker said:

when you take into understanding that his role and duties involve the development of the age group program “elite accelerator” and that his roles and duties have absolutely nothing to do with the administration and operation of national events, I think it makes it hard to come to that interpretation. If you want to bank on the fact he’s a USAW employee, you have to take into account what his duties are, and what departments he is in and/or responsible for. 

That's definitely fair... I don't know if there is any administrative component to KJ's duties or not. 

My sincere thanks for the thoughtful reply.  A rare glimmer of rationality in what is mostly an abomination of a message board thread! :)

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16 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Not when you take into understanding that his role and duties involve the development of the age group program “elite accelerator” and that his roles and duties have absolutely nothing to do with the administration and operation of national events. If you want to bank on the fact he’s a USAW employee, you have to take into account what his duties are, and what departments he is in and/or responsible for. 

Exactly. Coaching and developing wrestlers is a particular kind of professional skill in this sport and a different duty and authority than the ministerial task of setting the weigh-in rules and communicating them to the competitors. Only a few, with specific wrestling experience, can do the former, whereas many, including those who know nothing about wrestling technique and training, can do the latter.

In this instance, from what I understand about the person in question, KJ is a good guy to handle the professional skill of telling someone how to hit a double leg, and how to train, and how to find motivation, one of a relatively small number of people in the world with those skills.  But his rep is that he is not strong at more ministerial, organizational tasks not particularly specific to what happens on the mat.  Hence his job was to tell a specific wrestler how to hit a double leg, whereas the ministerial organizational duties of running the weigh-in and supervising all the wrestlers in that task was not in his portfolio, and a reasonable person would not think that he had apparent authority to administer the weigh-in.

KJ was acting as Cox's personal coach, relaying to his wrestler the same information that USAW gave to all coaches. Sadly he relayed it wrong.  

Edited by drag it

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What's to stop him from appealing to the IOC to wrestle unattached? 

He's got relevant senior-level wins during the last cycle, and this entire thing was easily avoidable in the first place with a little foresight. The IOC can do what it wants, so he can go out there in a Black Panther singlet with Francis Ngannou in his corner and go take Captain America's shield in front of the entire world. 

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20 minutes ago, Lurker said:

when you take into understanding that his role and duties involve the development of the age group program “elite accelerator” and that his roles and duties have absolutely nothing to do with the administration and operation of national events, I think it makes it hard to come to that interpretation. If you want to bank on the fact he’s a USAW employee, you have to take into account what his duties are, and what departments he is in and/or responsible for. 

Yep. Even assuming that this whole miscommunication story happened, and even pretending that the athlete is not ultimately responsible to know the event eligibility rules and something as basic as the weigh-in deadline which cannot just be delegated away, nothing in Jackson's job description and duties would lead anyone to reasonably believe that he had any authority regarding the weigh-in deadline or in contradicting a clearly posted procedure. The fact that he was Cox's coach makes this even moreso. And even if Jackson was along the lines of the Trials organizer, that would still not be a reasonable basis to believe that Jackson's alleged word overrode a clearly posted deadline. There was also no excuse for Cox not to know the rules and to double check even if he received bad info from his coach.   

Edited by iha

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It may tell you that, but surely you can’t speak for everyone. For example, some might say “tells us he was the only one that needed an extra fifteen minutes to cut the weight”. Being that he was over before the deadline, and not on till after the deadline, it’s certainly supported. 
I have literally no idea on how Cox missed the weigh in time.

But, I would have trusted him on his word.

That's all.

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You guys are misunderstanding the agent theory. Often in these cases, it's a reasonable person standard. "Would a reasonable person think that a person in KJ's position would give accurate information?" KJ's actual duties don't really matter in that scenario. I still don't think an arbitrator can craft an equitable solution now that the tournament is over, but it's a completely viable path to victory for J'Den.

 

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19 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

You guys are misunderstanding the agent theory. Often in these cases, it's a reasonable person standard. "Would a reasonable person think that a person in KJ's position would give accurate information?" KJ's actual duties don't really matter in that scenario. I still don't think an arbitrator can craft an equitable solution now that the tournament is over, but it's a completely viable path to victory for J'Den.

 

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For the argument to have any hope, Cox would have to show that a reasonable person would believe by virtue of Jackson's position and job title that he had the authority to override the clearly stated and publicized weigh-in deadline that all the tournament participants were informed about, that his authority to do so was reasonably apparent. It's called apparent authority. It is not enough for him to be employed in some capacity by US Wrestling. In this case Cox knew or clearly should have known when the posted weigh-in deadline was going to occur. So he would have to show that it was reasonable for him to believe that Jackson had the authority to override that deadline, not just that he assumed Jackson's belief regarding the weigh-in time was accurate. So if Jackson had been the tournament director or the head of the Trial's rules committee and he told Cox the wrong weigh-in deadline, the argument might fly. Even then it would get muddled by Jackson also being Cox's coach. But Jackson was not nearly in such a position and even then it is not reasonable to have taken such a claim at face value when it contradicted the posted  and publicized deadline without double checking. Cox apparently did not even ask. 

So no, it is a legal dead-end.

All that said, maybe they will make a decision based on the best interests of the Olympic team or there is some sort of catchall discretion and they just decide the hell with it, have a wrestle off with Snyder. Just a bizarre situation if what we heard was true. But then again they may decide that Cox cannot be relied on in the Olympics. Who knows? 

        

Edited by iha

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