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J'Den Cox Misses Weight

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3 minutes ago, Katie said:

Given the bylaws as they stand, I’m guessing nothing can be done. But in that case, the bylaws need to be updated to allow for discretion in cases like this.

This isn’t a criminal trial where procedure is of the upmost importance.  This is just a tryout for a team. The entire point of the tryout is to get the best team possible.
 

Discretion enables bias, discretion enables second guessing, discretion opens door for lawsuits.  Clear rules that are easily followed should be the norm.  

I know this sucks but the path many people want is that there are no rules, there are guidelines.   Some group decides whether people follow the guidelines close enough and use their discretion to say person A did due to XYX and person B did not due to TFK.  And the second guessing and the screaming and the agony is non stop.

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Cox has filed arbitration for a special wrestle off for the spot. This is Zain vs Yianni all over again. 

US wrestling left themselves open to a massive lawsuit letting Cox step on the scale and approved him before reneging beyond a "special committee". 

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Full systemic failure. USAW has a vested interest in all of the national team athletes making weight on time and competing here. J'den and his personal coaches effed up being close, but the entire national coaching staff and administration bears culpability as well. The only way he should have been allowed to not step on that scale on time was if he flat out refused to do so and went home. The entire leadership of the organization should have been aware and active in preventing this if they thought it would be an issue. Where was Zadick, Bender, or Baumgartner?

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2 minutes ago, nom said:

I disagree.  If this situation is correct and we have the right info .... I can see the people at the scales allowing the weigh in so as to not prevent a potential resolution in his favor.  If they did not allow the weigh in, there is no possible resolution in his favor.  

I don’t understand what you disagree with? Seems like youre contradicting the post I was directly responding to about “where do you draw the line” and how it sets a precedent. 

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Just now, nom said:

Discretion enables bias, discretion enables second guessing, discretion opens door for lawsuits.  Clear rules that are easily followed should be the norm.  

I know this sucks but the path many people want is that there are no rules, there are guidelines.   Some group decides whether people follow the guidelines close enough and use their discretion to say person A did due to XYX and person B did not due to TFK.  And the second guessing and the screaming and the agony is non stop.

I don’t see how there could be lawsuits if the bylaws in place specifically allow for discretion. What’s the lawsuit going to say? The bylaws in place are unfair?  It’s not like there are lawsuits about returning medalists being allowed to sit until the finals.  

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1 minute ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Full systemic failure. USAW has a vested interest in all of the national team athletes making weight on time and competing here. J'den and his personal coaches effed up being close, but the entire national coaching staff and administration bears culpability as well. The only way he should have been allowed to not step on that scale on time was if he flat out refused to do so and went home. The entire leadership of the organization should have been aware and active in preventing this if they thought it would be an issue. Where was Zadick, Bender, or Baumgartner?

What are you saying?  All the leadership should have made sure he got to the scale on time?  I'm confused by this post.  From what I've read, the ENTIRE responsibility is on Cox and his team.  How are you slamming anyone else?

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2 minutes ago, MizzouGrad said:

Cox has filed arbitration for a special wrestle off for the spot. This is Zain vs Yianni all over again. 

US wrestling left themselves open to a massive lawsuit letting Cox step on the scale and approved him before reneging beyond a "special committee". 

Good. Hope he wins then goes on and wins Olympic Gold then retires and gives the middle finger to USAW

Edited by simple

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26 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

What about when JB missed weight against Imar? Just saying, there's precedence...

Yeah, I thought about that as well and I’m wondering if that’s why they are more strict now.

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2 minutes ago, MizzouGrad said:

Cox has filed arbitration for a special wrestle off for the spot. This is Zain vs Yianni all over again. 

US wrestling left themselves open to a massive lawsuit letting Cox step on the scale and approved him before reneging beyond a "special committee". 

It wouldn't be an Olympic cycle if we did not have one of these.  Par for the course.

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4 minutes ago, Katie said:

Given the bylaws as they stand, I’m guessing nothing can be done. But in that case, the bylaws need to be updated to allow for discretion in cases like this.

This isn’t a criminal trial where procedure is of the upmost importance.  This is just a tryout for a team. The entire point of the tryout is to get the best team possible.
 

So how late can he show up? Give me an answer and let's see if everybody else is OK with it. Everybody wants the same treatment until something like this happens and then they want special treatment. 

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1 minute ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Full systemic failure. USAW has a vested interest in all of the national team athletes making weight on time and competing here. J'den and his personal coaches effed up being close, but the entire national coaching staff and administration bears culpability as well. The only way he should have been allowed to not step on that scale on time was if he flat out refused to do so and went home. The entire leadership of the organization should have been aware and active in preventing this if they thought it would be an issue. Where was Zadick, Bender, or Baumgartner?

Baumgartner is off the hook. He knows nothing about cutting weight and never has.

I think the criticism of Zadick and Bender are a little misplaced. It's on Cox and his direct coaches with whom he trains every day. 

That said, I selfishly hope they win the arbitration. It's not right, but it's what I want. I am still shocked we are even talking about this. Has anyone ever done this during the OTT, or is this literally the worst weigh-in fkup in American wrestling history?

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1 minute ago, lu_alum said:

It wouldn't be an Olympic cycle if we did not have one of these.  Par for the course.

Maybe don't host a trials without all the athletes getting vaccinated for a global pandemic when the actual Olympics isn't till August. Russia and Iran won't select their teams till July, but we have to be wrapped up before Easter. 

We have the most incompetent people running USA wrestling. 

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Just now, Katie said:

I don’t see how there could be lawsuits if the bylaws in place specifically allow for discretion. What’s the lawsuit going to say? The bylaws in place are unfair?  It’s not like there are lawsuits about returning medalists being allowed to sit until the finals.  

How about ...  bias,  no due process, etc.  You did it for golden boy but you didn't do it for me!  You did it for Iowa guy, but you didn't do it for Rutgers guy!  You did it for [race] but you didn't do it for [different race].  Explain why it was ok for X but not ok for Y!    Don't you see the nightmare this would create?  If you don't, you are being willfully obtuse.

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3 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

So how late can he show up? Give me an answer and let's see if everybody else is OK with it. Everybody wants the same treatment until something like this happens and then they want special treatment. 

The whole point of using discretion is that you go case by case. In this case, if we’re talking a minute or two, I don’t see how that could possibly disadvantage Cox’s competitors (more than they have already been disadvantaged by his favorable bracket placement).

Edited by Katie

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4 minutes ago, MizzouGrad said:

Cox has filed arbitration for a special wrestle off for the spot. This is Zain vs Yianni all over again. 

US wrestling left themselves open to a massive lawsuit letting Cox step on the scale and approved him before reneging beyond a "special committee". 

What should they do? Fight him and not let him on the scale? “Letting him” weight in isn’t an issue at all.

In fact, it was the right thing because he made weight. It was the committee that voted and said his weigh in didn’t count but they could have also voted to accept it.

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Just now, ionel said:

How is one not lined up for weigh ins 10 minutes before time?  How many people if on a airline flight scheduled to depart at 10:00am show up at 9:59am?  ;_;

Was he trying to get down to weight, possibly?

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6 minutes ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Full systemic failure. USAW has a vested interest in all of the national team athletes making weight on time and competing here. J'den and his personal coaches effed up being close, but the entire national coaching staff and administration bears culpability as well. The only way he should have been allowed to not step on that scale on time was if he flat out refused to do so and went home. The entire leadership of the organization should have been aware and active in preventing this if they thought it would be an issue. Where was Zadick, Bender, or Baumgartner?

FULL FAILURE ON J'DEN COX. Maybe Zadick was taking a ****. Why does he have to hold a grown man's hand? Personal responsibility!!!

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1 minute ago, nom said:

How about ...  bias,  no due process, etc.  You did it for golden boy but you didn't do it for me!  You did it for Iowa guy, but you didn't do it for Rutgers guy!  You did it for [race] but you didn't do it for [different race].  Explain why it was ok for X but not ok for Y!    Don't you see the nightmare this would create?  If you don't, you are being willfully obtuse.

It would go to arbitration. The arbitrator would say discretion is allowed. The arbitrator could perhaps consider whether the discretion was exercised in a clearly unreasonable manner. End of story. Pretty simple. 

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6 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

It needs to be clarified whether he missed weight (as the official reports claim) or missed the weigh in deadline. Which is different.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

He missed weight first, and then "made" weight after the official weight in time. 

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