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J'Den Cox Misses Weight

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1 hour ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

Dead wrong take. He missed weight therefore shouldn’t have been allowed to wrestle. Bend the rules for one you have to bend them for everyone. KJ was not acting as a USA wrestling employee he was acting as his coach, which was the most plausible excuse they could come up with. None of his other athletes missed weight. 

That’s a question I’ve been looking for an answer to...who else was he coaching. I don’t even know who’s staying at the otc right now. 

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15 hours ago, jchapman said:

I think it would have been a huge legal clusterf**k if they would have let him wrestle.

Why? If he did not win the spot, there would be no harm. If he had won the spot, the second place guy might have a gripe. But his gripe would be that they let JC wrestle despite his making weight 15 minutes late. That grievance-- if litigated-- would be laughed out of court. Most likely it would not be litigated since the second place guy would be seen as petty, selfish and foolish.

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11 hours ago, Lurker said:

That’s a question I’ve been looking for an answer to...who else was he coaching. I don’t even know who’s staying at the otc right now. 

I believe the KJ was not coaching anyone else. If he was, and if they made weight on time, we would have heard it and it would be devastating to JC's entire story. As far as I know, no one disputes the accuracy of JC's facts. The only argument is the about the consequences of those facts.

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3 hours ago, NJDan said:

Why? If he did not win the spot, there would be no harm. If he had won the spot, the second place guy might have a gripe. But his gripe would be that they let JC wrestle despite his making weight 15 minutes late. That grievance-- if litigated-- would be laughed out of court. Most likely it would not be litigated since the second place guy would be seen as petty, selfish and foolish.

How do you come to the opinion that deviating from the written, USOC approved, selection procedures after the fact would be laughed out of court? 

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14 hours ago, Lurker said:

That’s a question I’ve been looking for an answer to...who else was he coaching. I don’t even know who’s staying at the otc right now. 

The answer is in this thread. Anyone that knows what KJ’s actual job and title are knows he was acting as both a rep of USAW and as J’Den’s coach. He’s not some paid personal trainer. He’s the head USAW developmental coach for senior men’s freestyle at the OTC which is J’dens primary club/team. J’den was their only rep at the tournament.

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5 minutes ago, simple said:

The answer is in this thread. Anyone that knows what KJ’s actual job and title are knows he was acting as both a rep of USAW and as J’Den’s coach. He’s not some paid personal trainer. He’s the head USAW developmental coach for senior men’s freestyle at the OTC which is J’dens primary club/team. J’den was their only rep at the tournament.

I'm very well aware of his position, which has him working with resident and elite accelerator athletes, which is why I was curious if he was coaching any other athletes who are a part of either of those programs.  I haven't seen anyone substantiate whether or not he was coaching anyone else.  If it's there I didn't see it.  All I've seen was "well if he was....."

FYI....the OTC is not a club 

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2 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

How do you come to the opinion that deviating from the written, USOC approved, selection procedures after the fact would be laughed out of court? 

The key is when the challenge is made and what the posture is. If JC were to challenge or sue now, he would likely (almost surely lose). That is partly b/c the USAW followed its rules. But it's more because a judge who found that the rule was arbitrary or that JC was entitled to rely on KJ (both reasonable views) would have to find a remedy. That remedy would have to allow JC to wrestle Snyder. But it might even require re-staging the who OTT since who is to say that JC would have made the finals. It just upsets the apple cart too much to rule for JC given all that happened. 

But if USAW had allowed JC to wrestle and if he had won, the shoe would be on the other foot. Snyder (or whoever had lost to JC in the finals) would have to challenge or sue about the decision to let JC wrestle. Now a judge would have to rule that the USAW violated its rule, that it had no discretion to let JC weigh in 15 minutes late, AND THAT THE US WOULD TAKE ITS BEST WRESTLER OF THE TEAM. No judge would want to do that; nor should he. The judge would rule that the USAW was entitled to waive its time rule in this minimal way or that, even if not, there was no way to remedy the situation. If anyone would be laughed out of court in this scenario it would be Snyder for trying to take advantage of such a trivial breach and attempting to deprive Team USA of its best man at 97K.

 

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22 hours ago, BobDole said:

At what point is it too late to make weight in your opinion? What if he comes in at 6pm and finally makes weight? Would you bend the rules then?

When they arrived they should have noticed people making weight and replenishing, that isn't hard to figure out at this level. No way are they noticing a good amount of people weighing in and doing official weigh-ins fairly quickly when the weigh-in room and workout facility is one and the same. That is the part that baffles me the most in the whole situation. Not until 7:55 did KJ or J'den once figure out that weigh-ins were at a different time than they originally thought.

They hard part is it doesn't seem like J'den was doing anything nefarious to gain an advantage and they legitimately were on a wrong schedule. However, protocols are in place to prevent this and it is the coach/athlete's responsibility to adhere to the weigh-in rules and times.

Yeah I think this is still a fair question that he didn't really address in the interview (although I thought it was a great interview), although he did say that he thought there were some protocols that were not followed such as making announcements, which would have played a role in that.

One thing which I'm not sure if was already known that he talked about, was he said that when he did ultimately weigh in under weight, he apparently was told by "someone" that he was good, but not sure who it was.

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9 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Yeah I think this is still a fair question that he didn't really address in the interview (although I thought it was a great interview), although he did say that he thought there were some protocols that were not followed such as making announcements, which would have played a role in that.

One thing which I'm not sure if was already known that he talked about, was he said that when he did ultimately weigh in under weight, he apparently was told by "someone" that he was good, but not sure who it was.

I thought it was well known (or at least reported without any contradiction) that he made weight on his second attempt, which was 15 minutes after the weigh-ins closed.

 

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5 minutes ago, NJDan said:

I thought it was well known (or at least reported without any contradiction) that he made weight on his second attempt, which was 15 minutes after the weigh-ins closed.

 

Yes but I thought there was speculation (on FRL etc) about who was still present at that time, as well as if he was told anything in regards to his status. 

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55 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Yeah I think this is still a fair question that he didn't really address in the interview (although I thought it was a great interview), although he did say that he thought there were some protocols that were not followed such as making announcements, which would have played a role in that.

One thing which I'm not sure if was already known that he talked about, was he said that when he did ultimately weigh in under weight, he apparently was told by "someone" that he was good, but not sure who it was.

I find that excuse as just that an excuse. This isn't your local event where there are high school kids reffing and matches on half mats. Relying on an announcement to remind you of weigh-in times is grasping at straws and trying to divert blame for the situation.

As mentioned probably on 50 of these pages, letting him weigh in was likely a step in case the appeal was accepted and they had him on weight.

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Just now, BobDole said:

I find that excuse as just that an excuse. This isn't your local event where there are high school kids reffing and matches on half mats. Relying on an announcement to remind you of weigh-in times is grasping at straws and trying to divert blame for the situation.

As mentioned probably on 50 of these pages, letting him weigh in was likely a step in case the appeal was accepted and they had him on weight.

Nope, this was one of those events where a multiple time world champ was wrestling in the primary event sponsored every four years by a multimillion dollar organization. 13 minutes is 13 minutes! 

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38 minutes ago, BobDole said:

I find that excuse as just that an excuse. This isn't your local event where there are high school kids reffing and matches on half mats. Relying on an announcement to remind you of weigh-in times is grasping at straws and trying to divert blame for the situation.

As mentioned probably on 50 of these pages, letting him weigh in was likely a step in case the appeal was accepted and they had him on weight.

Agree with first sentence.

Sorry didn't read this whole thread.  I knew he "weighed in," I just didn't remember reading specifically how it was acknowledged by whoever was there.   Sorry if I missed it..

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4 hours ago, NJDan said:

The key is when the challenge is made and what the posture is. If JC were to challenge or sue now, he would likely (almost surely lose). That is partly b/c the USAW followed its rules. But it's more because a judge who found that the rule was arbitrary or that JC was entitled to rely on KJ (both reasonable views) would have to find a remedy. That remedy would have to allow JC to wrestle Snyder. But it might even require re-staging the who OTT since who is to say that JC would have made the finals. It just upsets the apple cart too much to rule for JC given all that happened. 

But if USAW had allowed JC to wrestle and if he had won, the shoe would be on the other foot. Snyder (or whoever had lost to JC in the finals) would have to challenge or sue about the decision to let JC wrestle. Now a judge would have to rule that the USAW violated its rule, that it had no discretion to let JC weigh in 15 minutes late, AND THAT THE US WOULD TAKE ITS BEST WRESTLER OF THE TEAM. No judge would want to do that; nor should he. The judge would rule that the USAW was entitled to waive its time rule in this minimal way or that, even if not, there was no way to remedy the situation. If anyone would be laughed out of court in this scenario it would be Snyder for trying to take advantage of such a trivial breach and attempting to deprive Team USA of its best man at 97K.

 

I don’t even know of a productive way to respond to that, so I’ll just leave it alone. 

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9 hours ago, Lurker said:

I'm very well aware of his position, which has him working with resident and elite accelerator athletes, which is why I was curious if he was coaching any other athletes who are a part of either of those programs.  I haven't seen anyone substantiate whether or not he was coaching anyone else.  If it's there I didn't see it.  All I've seen was "well if he was....."

FYI....the OTC is not a club 

Lol

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This is officially the Groundhog Thread. Just trying to decide if it's the day that Bill Murray electrocuted himself with the toaster (the posts that say that making weight at a wrestling tournament is a helpful hint as opposed to a fundamental rule); or the day that he becomes a good Samaritan and the life of the party who has learned how to play piano perfectly (the brilliant American Pie posts).

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3 hours ago, drag it said:

This is officially the Groundhog Thread. Just trying to decide if it's the day that Bill Murray electrocuted himself with the toaster (the posts that say that making weight at a wrestling tournament is a helpful hint as opposed to a fundamental rule); or the day that he becomes a good Samaritan and the life of the party who has learned how to play piano perfectly (the brilliant American Pie posts).

Well I knew if I had one last chance, I could make the people dance, and maybe they’d be happy for awhile?

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9 hours ago, drag it said:

This is officially the Groundhog Thread. Just trying to decide if it's the day that Bill Murray electrocuted himself with the toaster (the posts that say that making weight at a wrestling tournament is a helpful hint as opposed to a fundamental rule); or the day that he becomes a good Samaritan and the life of the party who has learned how to play piano perfectly (the brilliant American Pie posts).

groundhog-day-driving-600x315-cropped.jp

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