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J'Den Cox Misses Weight

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I am as big a fan of J'Den's as there is on this forum. I just want to know the circumstances. If there was some kind of miscommunication that lead to him being just a minute late, I would hope they would let it go. Otherwise, man, this just sucks, but it shouldn't have been close and the responsibility is on him and his coaches. It is utterly shocking that he would even be struggling to make 97kg. And the way he sweats.......man.......how?

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12 minutes ago, MizzouGrad said:

Andy Hamilton just posted a story on Flo. 

Can you give us the cliffsnotes for those without a subscription? Is there any actually useful info or just a summary of what we don't know so far?

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1 minute ago, Crotalus said:

Can you give us the cliffsnotes for those without a subscription? Is there any actually useful info or just a summary of what we don't know so far?

Honestly no new information.

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It doesn't appear that we have all the details regarding what was communicated between USAW and Cox and his coaches, but there a couple things at issue with this situation.

1. Why was Cox late to weigh-ins?

It is most likely Cox and his coaches fault for cutting weight so close to weigh-ins and losing track of time, but we don't know that for sure. Perhaps there was a miscommunication to his team, or maybe there was some freak incident that prevented Cox from getting there on time, etc.. I think a lot of people are rushing to conclusions about USAW as an organization and Cox and his coaches as professionals, as well as personal judgements, before we know all the facts.

2. Do USAW rules allow for discretion?

This is a separate issue. Regardless of who is at fault for Cox being late to weigh-ins, or how it came to be, from my understanding USAW can use its own discretion to determine how to proceed. The fact that they had a committee vote on it seems to support that. So regardless of anyone's personal opinions on tardiness or accountability, it appears that USAW is able to decide to allow Cox to compete.

3. Is USAW right in not letting Cox compete?

This is a question where it's up to your own personal opinion. In an arbitration case, where it seems this may go and where this question will basically be determined, the standard they might hold the decision up to is whether it was reasonable to not allow Cox to compete, similar to what Katie mentioned. While I personally hold Cox and his coaches accountable for being late to weigh-ins, if USAW allows for discretion, and there is precedent for allowing someone to weigh in later (i.e. Burroughs and Imar), I feel that he should be allowed to wrestle. The goal of USAW is to put the best team together, and not allowing someone to wrestle when it is within their power to allow it seems somewhat asinine. 

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1 minute ago, Stl said:

It doesn't appear that we have all the details regarding what was communicated between USAW and Cox and his coaches, but there a couple things at issue with this situation.

1. Why was Cox late to weigh-ins?

It is most likely Cox and his coaches fault for cutting weight so close to weigh-ins and losing track of time, but we don't know that for sure. Perhaps there was a miscommunication to his team, or maybe there was some freak incident that prevented Cox from getting there on time, etc.. I think a lot of people are rushing to conclusions about USAW as an organization and Cox and his coaches as professionals, as well as personal judgements, before we know all the facts.

2. Do USAW rules allow for discretion?

This is a separate issue. Regardless of who is at fault for Cox being late to weigh-ins, or how it came to be, from my understanding USAW can use its own discretion to determine how to proceed. The fact that they had a committee vote on it seems to support that. So regardless of anyone's personal opinions on tardiness or accountability, it appears that USAW is able to decide to allow Cox to compete.

3. Is USAW right in not letting Cox compete?

This is a question where it's up to your own personal opinion. In an arbitration case, where it seems this may go and where this question will basically be determined, the standard they might hold the decision up to is whether it was reasonable to not allow Cox to compete, similar to what Katie mentioned. While I personally hold Cox and his coaches accountable for being late to weigh-ins, if USAW allows for discretion, and there is precedent for allowing someone to weigh in later (i.e. Burroughs and Imar), I feel that he should be allowed to wrestle. The goal of USAW is to put the best team together, and not allowing someone to wrestle when it is within their power to allow it seems somewhat asinine. 

Do you mind explaining to me how we know Cox was late for weigh ins?

 

Honest question, not being snarky.

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37 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Baumgartner is off the hook. He knows nothing about cutting weight and never has.

I think the criticism of Zadick and Bender are a little misplaced. It's on Cox and his direct coaches with whom he trains every day. 

That said, I selfishly hope they win the arbitration. It's not right, but it's what I want. I am still shocked we are even talking about this. Has anyone ever done this during the OTT, or is this literally the worst weigh-in fkup in American wrestling history?

How about Cormier nearly dying while making weight at the Olympics, then not being able to compete?

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Just now, madcat11 said:

Do you mind explaining to me how we know Cox was late for weigh ins?

 

Honest question, not being snarky.

Honestly I'm getting most of my information from this message board and a few tweets. I'm taking everything with a grain of salt though. If the narrative that Cox was late to weigh-ins is not true, I'd probably have a different take on the situation.

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We aren't getting the full story and that's obvious. J'den Cox has wrestled at 86KG 92KG and 97KG with zero issues. Last year, he said he walked around at 208. Now he is missing 97kgs? Something is amiss and I hope to God J'den sues the living crap out of USA wrestling. 

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4 minutes ago, madcat11 said:

I was about to ask, didn’t Cormier miss weight way back?

He actually made weight, but was in such bad health because of it, he wasn’t able to compete.

Edited by jchapman

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Following the UFC, I do remember instances where a fighter goes up a weight and misses the first time then later says it wasn't a tough cut but the issue was they didn't take it as seriously as they did when competing in the lower weight. I'm going to assume that is what happened here. I have a hard time believing Cox who is like 5'10 and was wrestling 86kg and 92kg had a hard cut to 97. I assume he had a easy cut and as a result didn't pay attention to it the way he normally would have and it ended up costing him. 

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so, let's assume Cox wins an arbitration ... what the hell do you do?  Automatically give him a shot vs the winner of OTT?  That doesn't seem right either.  What if it was Ben Honis that had this situation?  He arbitrates, wins, and then gets a best of 3 vs the OTT winner?  Seems way out of whack.  

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There's also always the situation where scales are different. Maybe Cox was on weight on one scale, but when he check on the official scale, he was over, so he had to do some last minute cutting. Lots of things we still don't know, but I'm sure they will all come out in time.

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I’d love to know the circumstances too. It is definitely Cox’s responsibility and his coaches... it’s not USA wrestling’s responsibility to make sure he makes weight in time. However, USA should have a vested interest in what is best for USA wrestling. Cox competing in the trials is definitely in the best interest of USA wrestling (not the organization, as a whole nation). That was my point in saying they and anyone else around should be doing everything they can to make sure it doesn’t happen. 

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2 minutes ago, nom said:

so, let's assume Cox wins an arbitration ... what the hell do you do?  Automatically give him a shot vs the winner of OTT?  That doesn't seem right either.  What if it was Ben Honis that had this situation?  He arbitrates, wins, and then gets a best of 3 vs the OTT winner?  Seems way out of whack.  

Cox already gets a bye to the challenge tournament finals. If anything, wrestling that match at a later date would probably be preferable to his opponent, because then they get to wrestle it fresh

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2 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

If he made weight and this is one of those "but he wasn't hear in time" and w e are talking a couple of minutes because the staff wasn't watching the right clock, then that is F'd up. Let the man wrestle. 

How many minutes after missing the weigh-in deadline, under these same circumstances, would you allow a wrestler to compete? 1, 3, 10, 20?

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1 minute ago, Stl said:

Cox already gets a bye to the challenge tournament finals. If anything, wrestling that match at a later date would probably be preferable to his opponent, because then they get to wrestle it fresh

Semis, not finals

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3 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

I’d love to know the circumstances too. It is definitely Cox’s responsibility and his coaches... it’s not USA wrestling’s responsibility to make sure he makes weight in time. However, USA should have a vested interest in what is best for USA wrestling. Cox competing in the trials is definitely in the best interest of USA wrestling (not the organization, as a whole nation). That was my point in saying they and anyone else around should be doing everything they can to make sure it doesn’t happen. 

Much better worded than my posts and 100% agree. It's on J'Den and coaches much more than USAW, but USAW should do everything they can w/in the rules to make sure this doesn't happen.

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It's not unheard of to put someone on the scale in a situation like this. I don't think I can cite a specific major case but I've had it done in events I've done. But you let them know it's dependent on the ruling body to decide if it counts. It's best to do it like this so that there won't be law suits from everyone else knowing he would have had even more time to lose weight. It sounds like he was good weight-wise and it's unlikely the minute or two had any impact on that. They might have determined some USAW official gave them bad info or that it was beyond the control of J'Den and his coaches as to what happened. I'm not saying that was the case at all just that those possibilities must be considered until a final determination is made.

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Is there any precedent for allowing someone to wrestle after weighing in late/keeping the scale open late(even a minute or two)? 
 

From a different perspective...great time for Kyle Snyder to become the biggest hero in American Wrestling history... tell usaw you won’t wrestle unless they let J’Den. Prove all those talking points about wanting to beat the best, etc....

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