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A total of zero, 0 , no wins in the entire WTT tournament....

List the excuses, injuries, timing problems, etc.  However, shameful any way you look at it.  

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9 minutes ago, Class said:

A total of zero, 0 , no wins in the entire WTT tournament....

List the excuses, injuries, timing problems, etc.  However, shameful any way you look at it.  

Which tournament are you talking about?  That tournament hasn't happened since 2019.  No excuses for such a shameful, uneducated post.

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Good use of a $1MM budget.. Jk I always support money going to wrestlers pursuing their goals. Still a crap showing by Iowa/HWC. Top athletes are going to take notes, if they want to win at the highest level Iowa isn't the place unless you're already at that level. Brands can only win if he has 2x recruiting classes or super duper seniors/transfers

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1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

Only until March of next year, lol.  It will be a dog fight then with PSU, and then I imagine we'll drop a little bit for at least a year.

As long as Kem comes back I think Iowa has one more title run in them. Then, I think you are right, too much talent going out the door at once. Will take at least a couple of years to rebuild. 

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2 hours ago, VakAttack said:

They had one wrestler in the tournament.  Leave the criticism to @Perry.

Well that is a big part of the problem = ).

Do Tom, Terry and Den Dennis attend tomorrow?  They could watch online from the hotel room the HWC is paying for them even though they don't really need it.  Do they go to the arena and sit as spectators or they could be among the athletes/coaches and watch from down there pretending they are involved.

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1 hour ago, wrestlingnerd said:

How far off is Patrick Kennedy from Kem? I see Kennedy as a more talented (more athletic, better technique) Marinelli and feel he could step in next year and not do a lot worse than Kem.

Personally, I think Kennedy is a 165 lber as of right now.

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Well that is a big part of the problem = ).
Do Tom, Terry and Den Dennis attend tomorrow?  They could watch online from the hotel room the HWC is paying for them even though they don't really need it.  Do they go to the arena and sit as spectators or they could be among the athletes/coaches and watch from down there pretending they are involved.

Maybe Terry can threaten Jake Varner in passing while he’s at it.


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20 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Personally, I think Kennedy is a 165 lber as of right now.

Could certainly be true. But he looked incredible two years ago at 170 in HS and he's only, what 19? No question he could be a very good sized 174 by next year if he needed to backfill for Kem.

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On 4/2/2021 at 3:50 PM, Le duke said:


Maybe Terry can threaten Jake Varner in passing while he’s at it.


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Yeah maybe he could “ run him down” if he got in his way. HWC thought it was a good idea to spend money on women’s wrestling this last few years and then they left for different pastures last summer. Gilman rooms change of scenery as well or they would have had a few more wins anyway. If Lee and Eirman were there they would have a few more wins , but they weren’t. The room is hardly empty from high class talent. 

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Confluence of events, many related to COVID made this a tough OTT for the HWC, no doubt. Lee injury, Gilman leaving, Lugo getting dumb at Last Chance, Eierman and Kemerer losing in the finals and Last Chance being the next week, Marinelli being injured. It is what it is. They one have one current threat to be a world/Oly rep, plus a couple of guys who could be national team members. We'll see how some of the guys progress.

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4 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Confluence of events, many related to COVID made this a tough OTT for the HWC, no doubt. Lee injury, Gilman leaving, Lugo getting dumb at Last Chance, Eierman and Kemerer losing in the finals and Last Chance being the next week, Marinelli being injured. It is what it is. They one have one current threat to be a world/Oly rep, plus a couple of guys who could be national team members. We'll see how some of the guys progress.

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Hey Vak,

How do you feel about Dan Dennis as head coach of HWC? I admit I am a bit skeptical, as he always seemed more loner than motivator, but that’s anecdotal and really I have no idea. 

I really do want the HWC to do well, because when they do well the country does well. I’m just not sure if it’s an off year or something more systematic. The string of bad luck you mention is all fair, but I am a little confused why Eierman and Kemmerer (especially Eierman) weren’t at the last chance qualifier, or Warner or Cass, all of whom have favorable results against some of the guys who did qualify. Or for that matter, what about post-grads guys like Sorenson, Clark, Telford, Burak (all on HWC member page)... I mean what’s the point of joining a RTC if you aren’t even going to try to qualify for a world team, much less an Olympic team?

Not that all those guys were Olympic threats but I have no doubt Eierman could make some noise, and Kem/Cass could have qualified. Not sure if Telford or Burak are active but both have decent international results. Kudos to Lugo and Brooks for giving it a go, but that’s pretty thin.

Again I am not trying to hate on them as I love the RTC system and think the best way to improve our world teams is to create real competition among RTCs. I’m hoping it is just a post-NCAA celebration haze (blended with the bad luck you mention and maybe the Brands bros being uber focused on NCAAs), but am wondering if maybe they were left a bit rudderless when Perry left and Dennis has struggled to generate enthusiasm.

Edited by BAC

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1 hour ago, BAC said:

Or for that matter, what about post-grads guys like Sorenson, Clark, Telford, Burak (all on HWC member page)..

Sorensen has cancer, Clark recently retired due to injuries, Telford and Burak haven’t competed in a couple of years. 

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15 minutes ago, BAC said:

Didn’t know that about Sorensen. That sucks. I guess the HWC website is a bit out of date. Who is there?

The only HWC guys to compete in the last year are Brooks, Lugo and Jeremiah Moody. I think it’s fairly obvious that lack of funding played a big role in Perry and the women leaving and replacing him with Dennis.

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12 minutes ago, Mpchillin said:

The only HWC guys to compete in the last year are Brooks, Lugo and Jeremiah Moody. I think it’s fairly obvious that lack of funding played a big role in Perry and the women leaving and replacing him with Dennis.

Didn’t know there was a funding issue. I thought Brands refuted that when the Perry departure was announced, saying their money/budget was “unlimited” or something like that. A shame if true. Kind of surprising to be honest as I would have thought that Iowa had no shortage of benefactors. 

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37 minutes ago, Mpchillin said:

The only HWC guys to compete in the last year are Brooks, Lugo and Jeremiah Moody. I think it’s fairly obvious that lack of funding played a big role in Perry and the women leaving and replacing him with Dennis.

I haven't heard of funding issues and to my knowledge they're one of the better funded RTC's. Perry is on the record saying he left because he wants to be a D1 head coach and he wasn't getting looks as an RTC coach. He saw Pendleton get the OSU job and decided he'd have more opportunities if he went back to being an assistant. This has been said in interviews by Perry, Brands, and Zeke multiple times.

I think the assumption is that they were saving money for their large senior class to enter after this year, though the free year bumps it a year. They were planning to have Lee, Desanto, Lugo, Eierman, Marinelli, and Kem with Warner joining a year after and Cass a year after that. That's a lot of mouths to feed. They're just in a transition period.

It's unfortunate Spencer got hurt, Eierman, Kem, and Marinelli got upset/hurt, and Lugo pinned himself at last chance or they would have had a nice contingent.

Edited by uncle bernard

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4 hours ago, BAC said:

Hey Vak,

How do you feel about Dan Dennis as head coach of HWC? I admit I am a bit skeptical, as he always seemed more loner than motivator, but that’s anecdotal and really I have no idea. 

I really do want the HWC to do well, because when they do well the country does well. I’m just not sure if it’s an off year or something more systematic. The string of bad luck you mention is all fair, but I am a little confused why Eierman and Kemmerer (especially Eierman) weren’t at the last chance qualifier, or Warner or Cass, all of whom have favorable results against some of the guys who did qualify. Or for that matter, what about post-grads guys like Sorenson, Clark, Telford, Burak (all on HWC member page)... I mean what’s the point of joining a RTC if you aren’t even going to try to qualify for a world team, much less an Olympic team?

Not that all those guys were Olympic threats but I have no doubt Eierman could make some noise, and Kem/Cass could have qualified. Not sure if Telford or Burak are active but both have decent international results. Kudos to Lugo and Brooks for giving it a go, but that’s pretty thin.

Again I am not trying to hate on them as I love the RTC system and think the best way to improve our world teams is to create real competition among RTCs. I’m hoping it is just a post-NCAA celebration haze (blended with the bad luck you mention and maybe the Brands bros being uber focused on NCAAs), but am wondering if maybe they were left a bit rudderless when Perry left and Dennis has struggled to generate enthusiasm.

With Dennis, it's hard to know.  I love Dennis, but I'll admit I was hoping that we would get someone with a different flavor of wrestling.  Obviously Dennis is very different personality wise, but I thought some diversity of skillset would be nice.  However, it's hard to judge Dennis yet, since we haven't really gotten to see a whole bunch.  I understand Lugo blew his last two matches (well, at least the Henderson one...he fell right into McKee's head pinch, but that's also...kind of what McKee does) but he has looked much better than I think anybody thought he would.  How much credit does Dennis get for that?  I think the short turnaround limited the HWC participation in the event due to limited qualifications and guys not being able/wanting to make weight three weeks in a row.  I would also point out Lee, prior to his injury, looked better than he's ever looked, but...he's Spencer Lee, so I'm not sure how much to credit Dennis, though, as with any coach, he gets some.

In short, I would give Dennis an incomplete as of now.  Lugo has looked great, but we need to see more from the new members of the club (most of the collage guys, which is part of the reason for the poor representation.)

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1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

With Dennis, it's hard to know.  I love Dennis, but I'll admit I was hoping that we would get someone with a different flavor of wrestling.  Obviously Dennis is very different personality wise, but I thought some diversity of skillset would be nice.  However, it's hard to judge Dennis yet, since we haven't really gotten to see a whole bunch.  I understand Lugo blew his last two matches (well, at least the Henderson one...he fell right into McKee's head pinch, but that's also...kind of what McKee does) but he has looked much better than I think anybody thought he would.  How much credit does Dennis get for that?  I think the short turnaround limited the HWC participation in the event due to limited qualifications and guys not being able/wanting to make weight three weeks in a row.  I would also point out Lee, prior to his injury, looked better than he's ever looked, but...he's Spencer Lee, so I'm not sure how much to credit Dennis, though, as with any coach, he gets some.

In short, I would give Dennis an incomplete as of now.  Lugo has looked great, but we need to see more from the new members of the club (most of the collage guys, which is part of the reason for the poor representation.)

Fair enough. I guess I am mostly just perplexed as to why the participation is so low. Maybe it’s unfair to pin that on Dennis as I don’t know if that is part of his charge. I agree Lugo has looked good for the most part, and Spencer is Spencer. But one of the things I’ve long respected about the Iowa program is how many go on to compete internationally, and the low post-grad HWC membership combined with the disinclination of the current college crop to try to qualify for OTTs is kind of surprising (especially Eierman). Maybe there are more injuries than I realize. Hope they can turn that around, especially if it isn’t a budgetary issue. 

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22 minutes ago, BAC said:

Fair enough. I guess I am mostly just perplexed as to why the participation is so low. Maybe it’s unfair to pin that on Dennis as I don’t know if that is part of his charge. I agree Lugo has looked good for the most part, and Spencer is Spencer. But one of the things I’ve long respected about the Iowa program is how many go on to compete internationally, and the low post-grad HWC membership combined with the disinclination of the current college crop to try to qualify for OTTs is kind of surprising (especially Eierman). Maybe there are more injuries than I realize. Hope they can turn that around, especially if it isn’t a budgetary issue. 

You've been told why participation is low. Most of their last crop of guys retired/unable to wrestle (Clark, Sorensen, Burak, Telford) or left (Gilman). Brooks was the only one left from that generation. And then their new crop of young guys either hasn't reached that level yet (Desanto, Warner, Cass) or were hurt (Spencer and Marinelli). Lugo participated and looked great before pinning himself up 8-2 with a minute to go. 

The only headscratcher was Eierman, but maybe he just didn't feel mentally/physically prepared? He would have had to wrestle at Big Tens, NCAA's, Last Chance, and then the trials in a month. Idk, but that's really the only guy you can question.

It's very much a "reload" situation. Their roster should be very solid in the next year when the college guys finish up and I wouldn't be surprised to see them pull in another big name from outside the program. They also still have Safarov training there too.

NLWC is obviously the best RTC, but it's also easier when you have the basically unlimited funds that they do to bring in outside elite talent like Gilman, Snyder, and Maroulis to supplement the home grown guys. 3/4 olympians were brought in in the last year or so.

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Fair enough. I guess I am mostly just perplexed as to why the participation is so low. Maybe it’s unfair to pin that on Dennis as I don’t know if that is part of his charge. I agree Lugo has looked good for the most part, and Spencer is Spencer. But one of the things I’ve long respected about the Iowa program is how many go on to compete internationally, and the low post-grad HWC membership combined with the disinclination of the current college crop to try to qualify for OTTs is kind of surprising (especially Eierman). Maybe there are more injuries than I realize. Hope they can turn that around, especially if it isn’t a budgetary issue. 
Yeah. Like I said, I think it's mostly a poorly timed confluence of events. For example, if the Trials were last year, Gilman would have wrestled for HWC along with Spencer. But nope. Or other guys might have qualified with more events. The injuries, obviously. Plus the transition to the next generation of Hawkeye wrestlers, as said.

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