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Last chance in Bulguria in early May.

 

Pure speculation on my part, but perhaps also if any qualified countries drop out of the Olympics bc of Covid or political reasons. 

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1 minute ago, Crash said:

Last chance in Bulguria in early May.

 

Pure speculation on my part, but perhaps also if any qualified countries drop out of the Olympics bc of Covid or political reasons. 

The US will back out before any other countries in my opinion.  I'm actually surprised we are being allowed to compete.  

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4 minutes ago, Crash said:

Last chance in Bulguria in early May.

 

Pure speculation on my part, but perhaps also if any qualified countries drop out of the Olympics bc of Covid or political reasons. 

Do you have to win that tournament in order to qualify the weight?  Can we send multiple entrants?  

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1 minute ago, IronChef said:

One entry per country per weight. Top two qualify. No true second. Only unqualified countries can enter a weight.

It’s top 2 this year? Are you sure? Bc zain had to win pan ams to qualify the weight and in 2016 molinaro had to win the last chance in Poland i believe to qualify the weight 

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24 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

It’s top 2 this year? Are you sure? Bc zain had to win pan ams to qualify the weight and in 2016 molinaro had to win the last chance in Poland i believe to qualify the weight 

Yes it is top 2 same as in 2016.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrestling_at_the_2020_Summer_Olympics_–_Qualification

Edited by Fishbane

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24 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

It’s top 2 this year? Are you sure? Bc zain had to win pan ams to qualify the weight and in 2016 molinaro had to win the last chance in Poland i believe to qualify the weight 

You are incorrect on essentially everything here. Top 2 qualified for 2021 at Pan Ams (Cuba and Argentina at 65). In 2016, there were two world qualifiers. Top 3 qualified from the first and top 2 qualified from the second. Neither was in Poland. Molinaro initially failed to qualify but doping violations moved Bulgaria into a qualifying spot in the first qualifier which then opened up a spot for Frank in the second qualifier. The doping violations were eventually rescinded, but Frank got to keep his spot in the Olympics. 

Here are two good links to learn more

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrestling_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics_–_Qualification

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrestling_at_the_2020_Summer_Olympics_–_Qualification

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44 minutes ago, IronChef said:

One entry per country per weight. Top two qualify. No true second. Only unqualified countries can enter a weight.

Now the real question. What other teams/individuals stand in our way to qualify the weight?

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28 minutes ago, IronChef said:

You are incorrect on essentially everything here. Top 2 qualified for 2021 at Pan Ams (Cuba and Argentina at 65). In 2016, there were two world qualifiers. Top 3 qualified from the first and top 2 qualified from the second. Neither was in Poland. Molinaro initially failed to qualify but doping violations moved Bulgaria into a qualifying spot in the first qualifier which then opened up a spot for Frank in the second qualifier. The doping violations were eventually rescinded, but Frank got to keep his spot in the Olympics. 

Here are two good links to learn more

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrestling_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics_–_Qualification

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrestling_at_the_2020_Summer_Olympics_–_Qualification

Your right I forgot about the whole doping situation, idk how I confused turkey with Poland though...good stuff

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JO's got some work cut out for him but he's got this. .
Always thought he was our most complete guy (at 65)
Will be tough to beat if he doesn't go back to Jekyll and Hyde.
Guess May-9 is our next big date

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There are a number of high quality wrestlers not yet qualified who are expected to be at this last chance qualifier. Oliver is going to have a good draw and likely  to make some magic happen to get to the finals and qualify.    I hope he does, but the odds aren’t in his favor.  
 

If he exist in the qualifier semifinals their maybe an argument for him being the alternate if a country drops out at the last minute.  But if the other semi has a more internationally decorated wrestler it would likely go then them instead. 

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On 4/4/2021 at 9:51 AM, spladle08 said:

JO's got some work cut out for him but he's got this. .
Always thought he was our most complete guy (at 65)
Will be tough to beat if he doesn't go back to Jekyll and Hyde.
Guess May-9 is our next big date

I've never thought he was our most complete guy. His losses against savvy, well-conditioned opponents were always very predictable. This is the first and only time I've understood the JO allegiances. He was patient, calculated, well-conditioned, had world-class hand fighting--and kept his dynamic attacking skills. If he wrestles like he did this weekend, he will qualify the weight and is a very legit medal contender.

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I've never thought he was our most complete guy. His losses against savvy, well-conditioned opponents were always very predictable. This is the first and only time I've understood the JO allegiances. He was patient, calculated, well-conditioned, had world-class hand fighting--and kept his dynamic attacking skills. If he wrestles like he did this weekend, he will qualify the weight and is a very legit medal contender.


As you mentioned "well-conditioned" opponents were his kryptonite.
And conditioning is an aspect of "well-roundedness"
So maybe "most complete" was a stretch... I felt like he was our most advanced wrestler aside from conditioning...
So I've b*tched about it for awhile but against top opponents we saw a genuine world beating monster for 2 minutes.... Then predictably he gassed/shut-down and they all ended the same.

I was concerned for most of the match vs Yainni and kept saying "I feel like he's trying not to blow his load early".... Then I started thinking maybe this is the best approach for him... Then he won and I thought like you, "If he wrestles a little more paced and risk-adverse he might do some big things"

He can take anyone down and has solid defense. His takedowns seem so effortless early in matches I think we always assumed he was just the least conditioned athlete out there....
I'm starting to think he's just bad at wrestling with big leads .... Vito mentioned how he struggles with it in his interview...

Sorry I'm typing too much but yeah he looked like he could come home with an Olympic medal that whole tournament


If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.

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1 minute ago, spladle08 said:


I'm starting to think he's just bad at wrestling with big leads .... Vito mentioned how he struggles with it in his interview...

 

I don’t think it’s that. He rarely has big leads to begin with. I think it’s conditioning issues after a very rough cut he has yet to manage well. Even this past weekend, if what Coleman Scott was saying about his cut means 15ish lbs, I don’t care if he gas wolverine blood running through your veins, that’s too much in the new weighin era, especially for a 143 lber. 

I remember how unstoppable he looked at 149 in college. One of the most dominant take em down let em up guys ever. Dude never ran out of gas and hit first period fresh TDs all 7 minutes. He’s older now but even after graduating he started to mysteriously have fading issues in matches.

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I don’t think it’s that. He rarely has big leads to begin with. I think it’s conditioning issues after a very rough cut he has yet to manage well. Even this past weekend, if what Coleman Scott was saying about his cut means 15ish lbs, I don’t care if he gas wolverine blood running through your veins, that’s too much in the new weighin era, especially for a 143 lber. 
I remember how unstoppable he looked at 149 in college. One of the most dominant take em down let em up guys ever. Dude never ran out of gas and hit first period fresh TDs all 7 minutes. He’s older now but even after graduating he started to mysteriously have fading issues in matches.
Yeah you're not wrong.
I'd love for prime JO to show up and win it all though... And then just retire and sail off.... That's my hope.
0% the expectation.
But my hope.

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.

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58 minutes ago, spladle08 said:


 

 


As you mentioned "well-conditioned" opponents were his kryptonite.
And conditioning is an aspect of "well-roundedness"
So maybe "most complete" was a stretch... I felt like he was our most advanced wrestler aside from conditioning...
So I've b*tched about it for awhile but against top opponents we saw a genuine world beating monster for 2 minutes.... Then predictably he gassed/shut-down and they all ended the same.

I was concerned for most of the match vs Yainni and kept saying "I feel like he's trying not to blow his load early".... Then I started thinking maybe this is the best approach for him... Then he won and I thought like you, "If he wrestles a little more paced and risk-adverse he might do some big things"

He can take anyone down and has solid defense. His takedowns seem so effortless early in matches I think we always assumed he was just the least conditioned athlete out there....
I'm starting to think he's just bad at wrestling with big leads .... Vito mentioned how he struggles with it in his interview...

Sorry I'm typing too much but yeah he looked like he could come home with an Olympic medal that whole tournament


If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.
 

 

Guys that gas are often in denial and say things like, "I don't wrestle well with a lead."  I will say that Arujau looked sloppy against Fix late (but not gassed). He got flat worn down by Gilman though. NO ONE is capable of going guns blazing for 6 minutes against high level people with good head-and-hand defense. It's part of the reason Burroughs has often seemed agonizingly calculating. If he goes all in on 4 attempts in the first minute, he's toast, even with a lead.  JO going all in for the first minute or two and then blowing it consistently and chalking it up to being bad with a lead is just bad self-awareness. Wrestling situationally from the first whistle like he did this weekend is slightly less flashy, but just as impressive--and makes him downright dangerous in terms of being a medal threat.

Edited by maligned

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4 hours ago, spladle08 said:

Yeah you're not wrong.
I'd love for prime JO to show up and win it all though... And then just retire and sail off.... That's my hope.
0% the expectation.
But my hope.

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.
 

You are a man of your word

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On 4/3/2021 at 10:41 AM, JBluegill133 said:

Now the real question. What other teams/individuals stand in our way to qualify the weight?

By my count, a number of really good guys will be there:

Khinchegashvili (Georgia): silver at 2012 Olympics, gold at 2016

Gadzhiev (Poland): 2x world medalist

Korea, Turkey, Uzbekistan, and Iran will likely send their best, since none of them have qualified the weight either (depending on who qualifies via the Asian qual tournament)

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Khinchigashvili isnt nearly the same guy at 65kg and would not have the horsepower to hang with JO. 

S. Korea and Uzbekistan shouldn't have anybody that would seriously challenge JO. 

That leaves Iran, Turkey, and Gadzhiev. Gadzhiev is arguably past his prime, but I'd be nervous. Anyone the other two would send would also be a challenge, but one or both of them will qualify from Asia this weekend. It's highly likely JO will have to face one or two of this caliber but I like his chances if his maturation is as real as it seemed this weekend.

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Nomad tweeted a mini list..
Skriabin and Killicsallayan when "on" are tough outs..... It's gonna be a battle 171acb158107380690056f6653c57c4e.jpg

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.

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2 hours ago, spladle08 said:

Nomad tweeted a mini list..
Skriabin and Killicsallayan when "on" are tough outs..... It's gonna be a battle 171acb158107380690056f6653c57c4e.jpg

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.
 

Shuptar and Dubov are past their prime and undersized. Habat and Mukhtarov don't beat the top guys. Bucur has some close matches against top guys but no big signature wins. Khinch, as I said, feels like he'll be physically outmanned at 65kg against JO. But Gadzhiev, Skriaban, and Kilicsallyan will all be tough outs for sure. I was thinking Turkey is wrestling this weekend, which is wrong of course, so all 3 of those guys will be at the world qualifier. Should be very, very interesting.

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13 minutes ago, wrestfan said:

nope. now they have Ilyas Bekbulatov

Here's the posted entry list for this weekend. Bekbulatov and Yazdanicherati are the very clear favorites. Hopefully they're in two separate brackets and one less top guy will be at the world qualifier.

613844946_ScreenShot2021-04-06at10_36_10PM.png.2f77b6bb6fbf8101315fbc3729c67d1b.png

 

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On 4/5/2021 at 4:14 PM, maligned said:

I've never thought he was our most complete guy. His losses against savvy, well-conditioned opponents were always very predictable. This is the first and only time I've understood the JO allegiances. He was patient, calculated, well-conditioned, had world-class hand fighting--and kept his dynamic attacking skills. If he wrestles like he did this weekend, he will qualify the weight and is a very legit medal contender.

He's one of the cleanest finishers we have at any weight when he really commits to a shot (admittedly, this has become increasingly rare) and isn't gassed from a bad cut. That is huge against European wrestlers who are so tricky to finish on. Zain and McKenna have similar quickness but get stuck on bottom a lot more than JO and don't have the same ability to recover from a bad shot as JO. They also have much less variety than JO. 

I agree with spladle that JO is our most complete guy at 65, but he is the least likely to show up at his best which I attribute in part to a big cut. Very happy thinks clicked for his at the OTT. I hope Kenny Monday becomes his room mate until after the Olympics. Some of the stories he tells about his eating habits in between cuts would make a coach lose all his hair. 

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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