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2 hours ago, Crash said:

He defaulted out due to injury.  People are characterizing that as missing weight.  

JO injury defaulted out of the Last Chance Qualifier? 

He's not trying for bronze?

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Watching the match yesterday it occurred to me that I was watching a guy with flashes of brilliance vs. a guy that just knows how to win. 

I would rather watch the flashes of brilliance guy wrestle 10 out of 10 times, but if I had to put down money, I know which way I'm going. I feel bad for Oliver. To be so close to a life-long dream must be gut wrenching. I'm sure he's beating himself up way worse than a bunch of keyboard warriors ever could. 

 

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20 minutes ago, steen-hooph said:

Watching the match yesterday it occurred to me that I was watching a guy with flashes of brilliance vs. a guy that just knows how to win. 

I would rather watch the flashes of brilliance guy wrestle 10 out of 10 times, but if I had to put down money, I know which way I'm going. I feel bad for Oliver. To be so close to a life-long dream must be gut wrenching. I'm sure he's beating himself up way worse than a bunch of keyboard warriors ever could. 

 

"A guy that just knows how to win" 
100%.... 
As Americans (myself included) sometimes we really over-value optics, when results are all that matters. Gadz was never going to score 10pts but he also never has to. He holds center and has superior defense. 
The one that always comes to mind for me is Kamal Bey, when he was setting the world on fire I was like "Wait until he hits seniors and he has no defense and those guys who do, just beat him 1-0 because that high flying ish we love so much just isn't how you win long term"  
Dake, Cox, JB (To a degree), Snyder... have all really leaned into an international style, where they don't need to score 10 to win each match. 
I would say JO started to adopt that style, in that he stopped scoring 8 in the first minute before dying and losing based on gas-tank.....but I think he took it a little far, waited a little too long... if he comes out attacking in the 2nd and stays on him, I think he wins that match, but waiting until there is 40 seconds left, needing 2 takedowns against a top level opponent... tall order. Hopefully he comes back and continues to grow. 
I'm disappointed but still a JO fan

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4 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

"A guy that just knows how to win" 
100%.... 
As Americans (myself included) sometimes we really over-value optics, when results are all that matters. Gadz was never going to score 10pts but he also never has to. He holds center and has superior defense. 
The one that always comes to mind for me is Kamal Bey, when he was setting the world on fire I was like "Wait until he hits seniors and he has no defense and those guys who do, just beat him 1-0 because that high flying ish we love so much just isn't how you win long term"  
Dake, Cox, JB (To a degree), Snyder... have all really leaned into an international style, where they don't need to score 10 to win each match. 
I would say JO started to adopt that style, in that he stopped scoring 8 in the first minute before dying and losing based on gas-tank.....but I think he took it a little far, waited a little too long... if he comes out attacking in the 2nd and stays on him, I think he wins that match, but waiting until there is 40 seconds left, needing 2 takedowns against a top level opponent... tall order. Hopefully he comes back and continues to grow. 
I'm disappointed but still a JO fan

Yep. Being down 1-0 or 2-0 to Gadz would have been way different than the 3-0 hole he found himself in. The hard hand fight needed not to give up the step outs might have drained the tank too low. One of the reasons I was pulling for Yianni at the trials is that he doesn't have the giant weight pull Oliver has and doesn't have to wrestle to conserve energy. I thought he was our best bet, but then he lost in the 3rd place match, so what do I know? Oliver fairly won the spot and showed he was capable of getting it done. Really just had 3 bad minutes. 

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Oliver deserved the spot, no doubt, and his words are meaningful.

Still hurts all of USA wrestling how the match went down. And having only 4 FS wrestlers to watch in Tokyo is just stupid. I realize we should just be happy they're competing, but no, 5 weights is just wrong.

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14 minutes ago, DuckFor2 said:

Oliver deserved the spot, no doubt, and his words are meaningful.

Still hurts all of USA wrestling how the match went down. And having only 4 FS wrestlers to watch in Tokyo is just stupid. I realize we should just be happy they're competing, but no, 5 weights is just wrong.

Pretty sure there are 6 weights. Unfortunately, the US will only be repping 5. 

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13 minutes ago, steen-hooph said:

Pretty sure there are 6 weights. Unfortunately, the US will only be repping 5. 

Definitely 6. We have 5 in men's freestyle, all 6 in women's, and 4 in Greco with Porter and Coon taking their shots tomorrow to increase that last number.

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26 minutes ago, IronChef said:

He had no plans to make weight two days in a row, no matter what happened yesterday.

Have to wonder if that played into why he looked so lethargic yesterday. He is a notorious cutter and I couldn't help but wonder how much credence to lend to each factor

1. Competition level

2. Weight cut

3. Jet lag

4. In-match energy conservation strategy

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I think the cut has a lot to do with his style of wrestling. He is afraid to go hard for six minutes because he doesn't have six hard minutes in him. You saw it for sure yesterday. He had a definite strategy, and that strategy involved not even trying to score in the first period and counting on a good burst near the end to get it done. He did it in the semis, but he was sadly more than one score away from the lead. His strategy was so close to working! 

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26 minutes ago, IronChef said:

I think the cut has a lot to do with his style of wrestling. He is afraid to go hard for six minutes because he doesn't have six hard minutes in him. You saw it for sure yesterday. He had a definite strategy, and that strategy involved not even trying to score in the first period and counting on a good burst near the end to get it done. He did it in the semis, but he was sadly more than one score away from the lead. His strategy was so close to working! 

You have to give it to the guy for taking years of criticism of his match style and then successfully reinventing his entire match strategy at 31 years old. Didn't get the job done yesterday but overall I think it has been implemented very well.

He did exactly what his haters asked him to do, so it would be grossly unfair to then fault him for executing the hater's strategy to a T.

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27 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

You have to give it to the guy for taking years of criticism of his match style and then successfully reinventing his entire match strategy at 31 years old. Didn't get the job done yesterday but overall I think it has been implemented very well.

He did exactly what his haters asked him to do, so it would be grossly unfair to then fault him for executing the hater's strategy to a T.

I wouldn't categorize it as a hater's strategy, more like if you trying to qualify your country for the Olympics, you give it 6 minutes of all you got! And if you lose, feel ok with it. What everyone saw yesterday was not 6 minutes of all you got! 

This type of mat strategy is wrestling not to lose and certainly would NOT work in the Olympics either.

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22 minutes ago, DuckFor2 said:

I wouldn't categorize it as a hater's strategy, more like if you trying to qualify your country for the Olympics, you give it 6 minutes of all you got! And if you lose, feel ok with it. What everyone saw yesterday was not 6 minutes of all you got! 

This type of mat strategy is wrestling not to lose and certainly would NOT work in the Olympics either.

I should have articulated more clearly. I'm saying that haters bagged on JO for years because he went balls out early and gassed late, so the haters said "JO you need to have a much more conservative strategy if you don't want to lose 9-8 when you were up 8-0 at the end of the first."

JO responded by following that advice to a T, so the haters can't have their cake and eat it too.

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5 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

I should have articulated more clearly. I'm saying that haters bagged on JO for years because he went balls out early and gassed late, so the haters said "JO you need to have a much more conservative strategy if you don't want to lose 9-8 when you were up 8-0 at the end of the first."

JO responded by following that advice to a T, so the haters can't have their cake and eat it too.

I thought he had haters because he had a drug suspension?

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4 minutes ago, jchapman said:

I thought he had haters because he had a drug suspension?

It was both.  It's ridiculous that he essentially had to serve two years suspension on that and during that the rules were changed so he wouldn't have actually been suspended for what he was suspended for.

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