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Where Does Zain Go?

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This isn’t a knock on the NLWC or their coaches, but I think it is clear that Zain needs a change. His performances at Worlds, the horrible pin in Canada and now this year’s OTT results show he is regressing.

 

Something needs to change.

 

You would think going to Slay at Penn would be the obvious choice,but I believe McKenna is already there. So I am thinking Ohio St, Az St or Iowa in that order of likelihood.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

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3 hours ago, NJDan said:

How do these RTC stipends compare to assistant coach's salaries, which was always the main occupation of post-grad wrestlers until just recently?

I think the main difference is more that they don’t have to coach while training to get the stipend

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6 hours ago, NJDan said:

How do these RTC stipends compare to assistant coach's salaries, which was always the main occupation of post-grad wrestlers until just recently?

They vary dramatically. Evan Henderson took anything he could get per his own admission, even temporarily staying with the Kolls while transitioning to Spartan X. Kyle Snyder also stayed in a basement--Cael's--temporarily, but I can guarantee you he's making many multiples of what Hendo is making.

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1 hour ago, JeanGuy said:

Maybe the answer is life's work not a new training site. Not everyone is cut out for a long run in FS.

I was thinking the same.  Maybe he could get into college coaching.  Certainly has the credentials to get paid pretty well.

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1 hour ago, JeanGuy said:

Maybe the answer is life's work not a new training site. Not everyone is cut out for a long run in FS.

He does seem really uncomfortable in freestyle. Especially compared to nick lee

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Entry level guys make around 20K which are low level 1-2x AA's.

Mid level can get anywhere from 35-50K, that would include your random recent NCAA champ who just graduated.

Top level guys can get over 100K.  Add in their endorsements and what they earn medaling and they are doing very well which they should so they keep competing.

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One thing folks aren't considering is that Gilman to NLWC was in large part to Zain.  He (Gilman) has said so on quite a few occasions.

Zain had an off day.  Every other tournament he's had domestically he has been the best for some time.

I think it was more the weight cut.  He looked massive against Pantaleo and Bajrang.  He looked significantly smaller here and his tank was not a factor in any of his matches.  He loses that and he loses matches he used to win.  I give him a pass here.

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28 minutes ago, jp157 said:

He does seem really uncomfortable in freestyle. Especially compared to nick lee

Agreed, the really good freestyle guys develop freestyle specific attacks, and a different spidey sense as it were about positioning, and this carries over to their folkstyle wrestling, which can look boring and unadventurous during the winter season.  Seems to pay off in freestyle though.

Zain is a gorilla in folkstyle, undoubtedly his best style, where it’s more difficult to penalize a forward moving imposing presence, and where you don’t have to worry about flopping around or rolling about to finish your scramble.  I think this stuff gets Yianni in trouble too.  Yianni is so unbelievable in folkstyle, and can put himself in crazy positions with his flexibility.  Those positions don’t score at all in Folkstyle, they just invariably end in a few cartwheels or splits and a takedown for Yianni. Those same scrambles score a lot for your opponent potentially in Freestyle.

Conversely, if you watch Nick Lee for example, he has his chest to the mat in just about everything he does.  It’s part of what makes his style look kinda boring and conservative in the ncaa season.  Singles, snapdowns, shucks and drags, he rarely leaves a solid, chest to the mat with two feet on the ground position.  Mckenna and JO echo this in a number of ways too. I think this is the age old bag on folkstyle.  The style has different priorities, and entrains bad habits and subconscious programs if you prioritize international medals.  Good folkstyle finishing of a leg attack is oftentimes atrociously sloppy finishing from a freestyle perspective. 

I think a great angle on this is looking at the US women’s team.  They look FAR more composed and advanced in their techniques and scrambles than any of the men’s wrestlers.  US women’s wrestlers wrestle like russians or iranians, and bring a level of tenacity to freestyle that most US men cannot bc they potentially don’t have the same instincts and exposure.

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

One thing folks aren't considering is that Gilman to NLWC was in large part to Zain.  He (Gilman) has said so on quite a few occasions.

Zain had an off day.  Every other tournament he's had domestically he has been the best for some time.

I think it was more the weight cut.  He looked massive against Pantaleo and Bajrang.  He looked significantly smaller here and his tank was not a factor in any of his matches.  He loses that and he loses matches he used to win.  I give him a pass here.

I agree.  I wonder if he will move up to 70 kg in the future.  He looked massive vs Bajrang and has to shrink his body considerably for 65 kg.  

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2 hours ago, Drew87 said:

Agreed, the really good freestyle guys develop freestyle specific attacks, and a different spidey sense as it were about positioning, and this carries over to their folkstyle wrestling, which can look boring and unadventurous during the winter season.  Seems to pay off in freestyle though.

Zain is a gorilla in folkstyle, undoubtedly his best style, where it’s more difficult to penalize a forward moving imposing presence, and where you don’t have to worry about flopping around or rolling about to finish your scramble.  I think this stuff gets Yianni in trouble too.  Yianni is so unbelievable in folkstyle, and can put himself in crazy positions with his flexibility.  Those positions don’t score at all in Folkstyle, they just invariably end in a few cartwheels or splits and a takedown for Yianni. Those same scrambles score a lot for your opponent potentially in Freestyle.

Conversely, if you watch Nick Lee for example, he has his chest to the mat in just about everything he does.  It’s part of what makes his style look kinda boring and conservative in the ncaa season.  Singles, snapdowns, shucks and drags, he rarely leaves a solid, chest to the mat with two feet on the ground position.  Mckenna and JO echo this in a number of ways too. I think this is the age old bag on folkstyle.  The style has different priorities, and entrains bad habits and subconscious programs if you prioritize international medals.  Good folkstyle finishing of a leg attack is oftentimes atrociously sloppy finishing from a freestyle perspective. 

I think a great angle on this is looking at the US women’s team.  They look FAR more composed and advanced in their techniques and scrambles than any of the men’s wrestlers.  US women’s wrestlers wrestle like russians or iranians, and bring a level of tenacity to freestyle that most US men cannot bc they potentially don’t have the same instincts and exposure.

Good write up. I also tend to think that a certain kind of freestyle fan gets way caught up in the “cool” throws and trips they for whatever reason think only apply to freestyle. Whenever they comment on American freestyle wrestling they lament and focus on da throws and crotch lifts.

 

They seem to ignore that freestyle actually favors that “solid” fundamental style like Nick Lees. The most scoring at worlds comes from what Burroughs did.. reattacks and shot from space/touch and go with explosive but fundamentally sound finishes. The big area we’re not teaching enough is outside steps. We focus way too much on inside steps instead of getting our head and hips through the finish.

I started coaching my Hs team with this philosophy, head throw drills, really focus on the finishes vs the other parts. on a shot and make it about throwing head through opponent and finishing strongly vs “shot finish a” or “shot finish b”. That if their hands get locked figure out how to get their head in position to drive across. I don’t know if I’m explaining it well. But it absolutely stunned me how quickly the team got better at attacking and finishing shots

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3 hours ago, nhs67 said:

One thing folks aren't considering is that Gilman to NLWC was in large part to Zain.  He (Gilman) has said so on quite a few occasions.

Zain had an off day.  Every other tournament he's had domestically he has been the best for some time.

I think it was more the weight cut.  He looked massive against Pantaleo and Bajrang.  He looked significantly smaller here and his tank was not a factor in any of his matches.  He loses that and he loses matches he used to win.  I give him a pass here.

You have a talent for getting things wrong.

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4 hours ago, nhs67 said:

One thing folks aren't considering is that Gilman to NLWC was in large part to Zain.  He (Gilman) has said so on quite a few occasions.

Zain had an off day.  Every other tournament he's had domestically he has been the best for some time.

I think it was more the weight cut.  He looked massive against Pantaleo and Bajrang.  He looked significantly smaller here and his tank was not a factor in any of his matches.  He loses that and he loses matches he used to win.  I give him a pass here.

If your theory is correct what is the solution for Zain?  Do you think he should be competing at 70Kgs ?  He did look great against Bajrang and he didn't seem to be able to bring the  amount of pressure/attack rate you usually see from him to the matches against McKenna or Ashnault.

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24 minutes ago, lu1979 said:

If your theory is correct what is the solution for Zain?  Do you think he should be competing at 70Kgs ?  He did look great against Bajrang and he didn't seem to be able to bring the  amount of pressure/attack rate you usually see from him to the matches against McKenna or Ashnault.

He shrunk his body pretty good prior to this last year.  He could do it again.  Or 70kg.  The problem with 70kg is that most world caliber guys will have a strength advantage on him.

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One thing folks aren't considering is that Gilman to NLWC was in large part to Zain.  He (Gilman) has said so on quite a few occasions.
Zain had an off day.  Every other tournament he's had domestically he has been the best for some time.
I think it was more the weight cut.  He looked massive against Pantaleo and Bajrang.  He looked significantly smaller here and his tank was not a factor in any of his matches.  He loses that and he loses matches he used to win.  I give him a pass here.

How do you explain Canada?


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