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GranbyTroll

What earns a caution anyways

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When Bo spanked Zahid during the match the ref didn't award a caution, and apparently @Jaroslav Hasek lost his mind. When Zahid choked Nate Jackson unconscious in a Russian roll, the ref took away some of Zahid's exposure points but didn't award a caution. When Joe Rau put Stefanowicz in a front head pinch, and the refs stopped it twice, the second time giving caution +2 and putting Rau in par terre. 

Were all of these cautions? None? Some? The Stefanowicz one stuck out to me for how severe the penalty was vs. the infraction. Rau did the front head pinch the way you're supposed to (super tight) and the refs not only took it away but gave Stefanowicz 2 points and put Rau in par terre. That penalty is not commensurate with the infraction in my opinion. In the 2016 75kg semis, Starcevic put Vlasov out cold and they gave Starcevic 2 points for it. Are the US officials doing this wrong? 
 

 

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4 hours ago, GranbyTroll said:

When Joe Rau put Stefanowicz in a front head pinch, and the refs stopped it twice, the second time giving caution +2 and putting Rau in par terre. 

Were all of these cautions? None? Some? The Stefanowicz one stuck out to me for how severe the penalty was vs. the infraction. Rau did the front head pinch the way you're supposed to (super tight) and the refs not only took it away but gave Stefanowicz 2 points and put Rau in par terre. That penalty is not commensurate with the infraction in my opinion.

 

Interested in what people say about this since I haven't seen much commentary on it since the initial reactions and a lot of boos from the crowd. Any explanation on this? I don't believe the position was illegal since he had a head and arm and was in the process of another throw which would've made it 8-0. This match could've been one that went 3 for sure. Did the ref make a mistake? 

I think the caution and +2 was because Rau didn't stop when the ref blew the whistle both times. It wasn't specifically because of the position. In that position however, I don't believe it should have been stopped in the first place. Unless there was something else going on we couldn't see.

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16 hours ago, Relentless125 said:

 

Interested in what people say about this since I haven't seen much commentary on it since the initial reactions and a lot of boos from the crowd. Any explanation on this? I don't believe the position was illegal since he had a head and arm and was in the process of another throw which would've made it 8-0. This match could've been one that went 3 for sure. Did the ref make a mistake? 

I think the caution and +2 was because Rau didn't stop when the ref blew the whistle both times. It wasn't specifically because of the position. In that position however, I don't believe it should have been stopped in the first place. Unless there was something else going on we couldn't see.

I agree... I was shocked to not seeing much talk about this. It looked bad to me in real time. I’m not really a Greco expert so I didn’t bring it up, but I would be interested in hearing from some Greco guys what they thought about it? 

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“Article 48 – General Prohibitions
Wrestlers are forbidden to:

- Pull the hair, ears, genitals, pinch the skin, bite, twist fingers or toes, etc. and generally, to perform actions, gestures or holds with the intention of torturing the opponent or making him suffer to force him to withdraw.

- Kick, head-butt, strangle, push, apply holds that may endanger the opponent’s life or cause a fracture or dislocation of limbs, tread on the feet of the opponent or touch his face between the eyebrows and the line of the mouth...

...These general prohibitions are sanctioned based on the severity of the foul (disqualification, caution-1(2) point or verbal warning). Disciplinary sanctions might also be applied after the competition against the athlete at fault.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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So, if the refs think you’re using a legal hold to purposefully injure, or in this case choke, your opponent, it immediately becomes an illegal hold. Obviously, this is massively subjective depending on the referees’ tolerance for violence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, jackwebster said:

On bottom in parterre, can you get a caution for intentionally putting your head down to go out of bounds? 

You're supposed to get a caution and be put back into par terre. In freestyle, cautions are 1, and in Greco they're 2. 

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21 hours ago, Relentless125 said:

I think the caution and +2 was because Rau didn't stop when the ref blew the whistle both times. It wasn't specifically because of the position. In that position however, I don't believe it should have been stopped in the first place. Unless there was something else going on we couldn't see.

All cautions are +2 in Greco, I believe. The ref did warn Rau about it early in the match alongside some top tier finger wagging. Rau got put back down, I assume, because the foul happened on the knees in a front headlock which internationally is par terre even though folkstyle fans would consider that "neutral."

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1 hour ago, jross said:

Joe’s move looked fine from the peanut gallery.  There were several choke outs before Joe’s match and it seemed to me like the ref was hyper aware and cautious as result.  

Zahid chokes Nate Jackson out cold, gets to keep the first 2 points and only loses the second 2 points. It seems unfair that this is unrelated event significantly impacted Rau's bid to make the Olympic team. 

I'm not a big Rau fan or anything. Even after being put in par terre, Rau had a chance to defend Stefanowicz's gut (he didn't) then got his own chance on top in the next half (he didn't score). So this was very much still in Rau's hands... but as a non-Greco guy this was a real head scratcher. 

Edited by GranbyTroll
wording

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This interview provided a lot more insight on the topic. Sounds like they're challenging the situation. I've been seeing a lot more people bringing this up recently after this interview as it seemed to get glossed over with all the other events of the trials.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/6-olympic-trials-recap-with-medlin-and-pete-kowalczuk/id1549989173?i=1000517268630

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