LJB 2,093 Report post Posted April 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, jp157 said: You think so? Why? this would require an extremely long and drawn post to properly reflect my true feelings on the matter... i'm not sure i can justify that amount of time right now... ask me again once i'm on my second nightcap and i will use all this bandwidth... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jp157 513 Report post Posted April 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, LJB said: this would require an extremely long and drawn post to properly reflect my true feelings on the matter... i'm not sure i can justify that amount of time right now... ask me again once i'm on my second nightcap and i will use all this bandwidth... Lol okay. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lurker 2,039 Report post Posted April 13, 2021 @LJB @jp157 Please mention me when this comes up again so I get an alert. Would like to get into this myself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maligned 529 Report post Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) 45 minutes ago, LJB said: our greco issues are waaaaaay more cultural than institutional... Culture drives institutional makeup and institutions propagate culture, so I think we're all going to be mentioning similar issues from different angles if we start to make a list. Edited April 13, 2021 by maligned Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 2,093 Report post Posted April 13, 2021 16 minutes ago, maligned said: Culture drives institutional makeup and institutions propagate culture, so I think we're all going to be mentioning similar issues from different angles if we start to make a list. oh sure... we could leave it at that and it would 100% be right... but... how will get an opportunity to throw out subtle jabs at the **** style of wrestling if we just summed it up in one sentence????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jp157 513 Report post Posted April 13, 2021 2 hours ago, LJB said: oh sure... we could leave it at that and it would 100% be right... but... how will get an opportunity to throw out subtle jabs at the **** style of wrestling if we just summed it up in one sentence????? Alright you’ve obviously had you are on your third pre night cap. So let’s hear your answer. Asides from the obvious of wishing we did more Freco or switched. I want your take on the current Greco problems culturally lol Im sick of weigh in threads Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 2,093 Report post Posted April 13, 2021 i'm sitting in the front seat of my car watching ARC hour glass waiting for the kid to be done picking up heavy things... so... nowhere near close to my third pre-night cap... but... in a nut shell... as a nation we are scared of greco... so the opportunity to focus on it full time is not available until we have already trained our bodies and most importantly our minds to wrestle something else... trust me, i know this not some hot take, but, to expect our athletes to be able to compete on the international level after training in the man's style full time for only a handful of years is silly... in most other wrestling countries, the kids pick their style going forward much much earlier... 10 is about the average age from what i have heard and can tell from personal experience... what that means is those kids are learning and developing a "language" when they are the most apt to pick it up and learn the nuances necessary to speak and think that "language" and by the time they reach maturity it is instinctive... we do nothing but play catch up to that and rarely are able to overcome the glass ceiling of international greco... one poster very accurately also noted how our refs do not understand it any better and then ref it in a manner that hurts our athletes when they compete over seas... that was 100% accurate and a real problem... then we can talk about the coaches who do not understand it any better... when we were in OK, the boys were given a few greco practices... arm spin city... and trust me when i say that arm spins is the calling card of bad greco... that is not to say they have no place, can not be executed properly and effectively, or that they have enver been used to win matches on the senior level... i remember the first practice i watched being ran by coach ahad when he was still at the OTC... i can only equate it to having to sit through a lifetime of wine and painting with a bunch of pretentious karen's and then just happening to stumble into a broom closet where picasso is putting in the work... the difference between a fukn little rat dog pomeranian and the grey wolf... they are 97% genetically the same... but there is nothing similar about them... i watch coach mohammed teach a gut a few years ago... the subtle little differences in his technique... the tiniest of little things he articulated... it was like watching an entirely different sport... those types of differences come from a lifetime of perfecting your body movements and your brain to think like a real greco wrestler and not just like a wrestler trying to learn greco... until we change our cultural approach to real wrestling, we will always be behind internationally... again... all in a nut shell type of things... 1 AHamilton reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AHamilton 1,026 Report post Posted April 14, 2021 I used to be very into Greco. I followed it pretty closely up until a few rules changes ago. Based on the way things have been going, I'm absolutely amazed that we won a team world championship in it during my lifetime and not long after my competitive career. What happened? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lurker 2,039 Report post Posted April 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, AHamilton said: I used to be very into Greco. I followed it pretty closely up until a few rules changes ago. Based on the way things have been going, I'm absolutely amazed that we won a team world championship in it during my lifetime and not long after my competitive career. What happened? Agree with a lot of things LJB said above. In my view a very big hit to our Greco future took place when USAW began to invest in folkstyle. When I was coming up, I wrestled probably twice as many Greco matches through MS and HS than I did folkstyle. That’s because between February and July, the international styles were our only option. Now, where I’m at now at least, you go to a Saturday tournament and it’s all folkstyle, maybe some freestyle matches worked in, rarely rarely a Greco match. Some torunaments run all three styles concurrently, and it’s a hot mess. Thats the only thing I can say I have a real problem with USAW. The day they decided to invest and push folk style, I believe, put the nail in the coffin as far as us being a perennial Greco contender of any kind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 2,093 Report post Posted April 14, 2021 there is much truth to what @Lurker is saying... you can wrestle 70+ stall fest matches in just the summer now... it is ridiculous... personally... it should be illegal to wrestle folk past february... like raids on tourneys and everyone goes to jail illegal... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drew87 349 Report post Posted April 14, 2021 I would just like to point out that the title of this thread is unintentionally quite hilarious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 2,093 Report post Posted April 14, 2021 25 minutes ago, Drew87 said: I would just like to point out that the title of this thread is unintentionally quite hilarious. well played, sir... well played indeed... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jp157 513 Report post Posted April 14, 2021 I’m a big believer in changing the things you can change even if the big things you really want won’t happen. The wish for the styles to get switched is a whole other discussion. The only reason I don’t fully support switching to at least Freestyle is because of the legitimate concern it would kill the scholastic opportunities for kids. and turn wrestling into a pay to play club sport. which I think would hurt more than it helps.. in addition to the fact I think this generation of kids need wrestling more than older generations and should have access. That being said... there are lots of things that could be done between that giant step and what’s going on now. I think it would help immensely to make it that you are required to do FRECO in off season if you want to wrestle outside season like it used to be. Make the incentives for the elite clubs to produce fargo and junior/cadet worlds results not state/super32 Push for colleges to switch to freestyle. Something that I don’t think would be as difficult or dangerous as trying to switch high school. More support for young, small program coaches. Many end up leaving coaching because they were never given any idea of how to run a program in a way that’s so time consuming they can’t have a family. Push coaching education so coaches actually know how to teach throws and don’t see them as a JV thing or athletic mystery. Will these things fix everything overnight? **** no.. but they would have things in the proper direction far more than the culture culture Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
