Did your state GOAT come from the pool of undefeated’s?

[headshuck 2,626]

Marsteller the GOAT of Pennsylvania high school wrestling?

[portajohn 463]

7 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Marsteller the GOAT of Pennsylvania high school wrestling?

PA it's Kolat.  He's the GOAT

[TBar1977 4,602]

Cary Kolat is the PA GOAT. 

I checked.

[headshuck 2,626]

How about Indiana? Undefeated Red, Tsirtsis? Or Howe, Escobedo, Nick Lee?

[Wrestleknownothing 1,643]

6 minutes ago, headshuck said:

How about Indiana? Undefeated Red, Tsirtsis? Or Howe, Escobedo, Nick Lee?

To argue for Lee you have to go beyond high school credentials. Not saying you shouldn't, just saying you must.

[Drew87 349]

State GOAT on the High School side for NJ would be tough bc Blair does their own thing.  That said, I don’t think anyone from Blair is better than Suriano.  If you want to include Blair I’d field the Mocco argument.

[Katie 1,076]

1 hour ago, headshuck said:

How about Indiana? Undefeated Red, Tsirtsis? Or Howe, Escobedo, Nick Lee?

Alex Tsirtsis and Chad Red were both undefeated four timers.  They'd be the most likely candidates for high school GOAT.

Escobedo probably had the most impressive overall career for a male wrestler from Indiana: 4x state champ, NCAA champ, 4x AA, and 5th place in the world. 

Other good ones include Reece Humphrey, Andrew Howe, Jason Tsirtsis, Stevan Micic, Nick Lee, Mason Parris, Brayton Lee, etc.

Also, two women's Olympians this year are from Indiana: Sarah Hildebrandt and Kayla Miracle.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Katie

[Sublime607 145]

N

Edited April 13, 2021 by Sublime607

[TobusRex 2,108]

Best HS of all time in Oklahoma? I'd probably go with Kenny Monday or Mike Sheets, both of whom went undefeated in their HS careers with only one blemish: a tie between the two of them. Kenny was a star at Tulsa Washington (4A), and Mike was star at Tahlequah (3A). Fortunately neither had the misfortune of running into me on the mat. John Smith was pretty great in HS, I think he was a 3 time champ, but he had some losses. I'm not sure if Fix lost in Oklahoma HS folk competition, but I know he lost a fair amount of times during FS during that span. 

[TobusRex 2,108]

3 hours ago, Drew87 said:

State GOAT on the High School side for NJ would be tough bc Blair does their own thing.  That said, I don’t think anyone from Blair is better than Suriano.  If you want to include Blair I’d field the Mocco argument.

Problem with Blair is many of their best wrestlers come from other states.  Hard to claim a guy as the best HS wrestler New Jersey has ever had when the kid was originally from, oh, Texas. 

[TobusRex 2,108]

3 hours ago, Katie said:

Alex Tsirtsis and Chad Red were both undefeated four timers.  They'd be the most likely candidates for high school GOAT.

Escobedo probably had the most impressive overall career for a male wrestler from Indiana: 4x state champ, NCAA champ, 4x AA, and 5th place in the world. 

Other good ones include Reece Humphrey, Andrew Howe, Jason Tsirtsis, Stevan Micic, Nick Lee, Mason Parris, Brayton Lee, etc.

Also, two women's Olympians this year are from Indiana: Sarah Hildebrandt and Kayla Miracle.

I'd say Escobedo was the best of all the guys you mentioned. 

[TobusRex 2,108]

4 hours ago, headshuck said:

Marsteller the GOAT of Pennsylvania high school wrestling?

He'd HAVE to be, just going by HS records. Count in college and it's Spencer Lee by a country mile. 

[goStanford18 88]

I don't think any CA wrestler has gone 4 for 4 and undefeated in high school. CA has had four 4-timers: Jesse Vasquez, Seth Nevills, Justin Mejia, and Darrell Vasquez. Personally, I wouldn't put any of them in my top 15 from CA--even solely based on high school accomplishments. 

 

IMO, the CA HS GOAT has to be Aaron Pico--and I don't think it's close. He was only 42-0 and a 1x state champion, but his national/world accomplishments on the freestyle circuit probably make him the GOAT HS wrestler. IIRC, Pico was in the high school class of 2016. So before he finished high school, he was: 

- 2012 Walsh Ironman Champ 

- 2013 CA State Champ

- 2013 Cadet World Gold

- 2014 Junior World Silver (runner-up to Yazdani)

- 2015 Junior World Bronze 

- 2016 Olympic Trials Finalist (runner-up to Molinaro)

 

Some guys he beat in that time frame: Micah Jordan, Joey McKenna, Zain Retherford, Jayson Ness, Jordan Oliver, Reece Humphrey. 

 

If Pico is excluded from the discussion, then it would be really tough to pick a HS GOAT from CA. Here are some options: 

- Zahid Valencia (#1 in recruit in 2015)

- Morgan McIntosh (#1 recruit in 2011)

- Jason Welch (#1 recruit in 2008) 

- Stephen Abas 

- Eric Guerrero 

- Dave Schultz

 

None of them went undefeated. 

 

 

 

[Lurker 2,049]

7 hours ago, Katie said:

Alex Tsirtsis and Chad Red were both undefeated four timers.  They'd be the most likely candidates for high school GOAT.

Escobedo probably had the most impressive overall career for a male wrestler from Indiana: 4x state champ, NCAA champ, 4x AA, and 5th place in the world. 

Other good ones include Reece Humphrey, Andrew Howe, Jason Tsirtsis, Stevan Micic, Nick Lee, Mason Parris, Brayton Lee, etc.

Also, two women's Olympians this year are from Indiana: Sarah Hildebrandt and Kayla Miracle.

Let’s not forget Anderson Higland’s own Kelvin Jackson. First D1 champ (Michigan State) from Indiana. 
 

But in reality my opinion it’s Escobedo and not really close (although Mendez is making a run). He lost once (to Illinois kid) and was just a monster. Even in HS he had technique for days. Smooth. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Lurker

[Gasman1 43]

7 hours ago, Drew87 said:

State GOAT on the High School side for NJ would be tough bc Blair does their own thing.  That said, I don’t think anyone from Blair is better than Suriano.  If you want to include Blair I’d field the Mocco argument.

I'd go Ashnault over Suriano...  both 4x undefeated state champs but Ash had a better NCAA career with 4 aa finishes.  And far less drama. 

[TobusRex 2,108]

14 minutes ago, Gasman1 said:

I'd go Ashnault over Suriano...  both 4x undefeated state champs but Ash had a better NCAA career with 4 aa finishes.  And far less drama. 

Ashnault was also in college for, what, 27 years? 

[TBar1977 4,602]

Just as we don't count John Smith's Sr. Freestyle record to erase his high school losses, we should not count Fix's Fargo or other Freestyle record to measure his Oklahoma folkstyle record.

[Chucktown_Luke 38]

For South Dakota the HS GOAT conversation really includes Randy Lewis (undefeated in HS), Lincoln Mcilravy(5x State Champ) and Logan Storley(6x state champ). I lean towards Randy Lewis but I think its a worthwhile debate if just examining HS careers. 

[Husker_Du 878]

what's the criteria for GOAT?  hs resume, college resume, international resume? all of the above? 

[Mphillips 1,809]

1 minute ago, Husker_Du said:

what's the criteria for GOAT?  hs resume, college resume, international resume? all of the above? 

It seems to be whichever one is best. LOL

[TFBJR 471]

1 hour ago, TobusRex said:

Ashnault was also in college for, what, 27 years? 

He won his last high school championship in 2013 - he was 17 yo.  He won NCAAs in 2019 - 4 AAs, Redshirt, and Medical years; he was 23 years old.  Not as impressive as your career I imagine but far better than mine. 

I'd throw Damion Hahn into the mix.  Some of his accomplishments: 

2nd Place 2006 US World Team Trials
2-Time US Nationals 3rd Place Finisher
2-Time NCAA National Champion for University of Minnesota
4-Time NCAA Division 1 All-American
3-Time Big 10 Conference Tournament Champion
2004 NCAA Big-10 Conference Athlete of the Year
2-Time University Nationals Freestlye Champion
2-Time Fila Junior Nationals Freestyle Champion
3-Time Junior Nationals Freestyle Champion
131-3 Career High School Record
3-Time USA Wrestling High School All-American
1999 Winner of Dave Schultz High School Excellence Award
3-Time NJSIAA State Tournament Champion
4-Time NJSIAA State Tournament Finalist - lost by 1 point at 189 pounds
3-Time Region 6 Champion
4-Time Region 6 Finalist
4-Time District 24 Champion
1995 US Cadet Freestyle Champion

[Bozak2018 97]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

Let’s not forget Anderson Higland’s own Kelvin Jackson. First D1 champ (Michigan State) from Indiana. 
 

But in reality my opinion it’s Escobedo and not really close (although Mendez is making a run). He lost once (to Illinois kid) and was just a monster. Even in HS he had technique for days. Smooth. 

Kelvin Jackson was not the first D1 champ from the state of Indiana.  Looks like that honor goes to Edwin Belshaw from Lowell, IN.  National champ for IU at 135 lbs in 1932.  You could say Jackson was the first champ in the "modern" era.

[Lurker 2,049]

Just now, Bozak2018 said:

Kelvin Jackson was not the first D1 champ from the state of Indiana.  Looks like that honor goes to Edwin Belshaw from Lowell, IN.  National champ for IU at 135 lbs in 1932.  You could say Jackson was the first champ in the "modern" era.

Ahhhhhhh, good call.  Thank you.  I've been wrong all these years...

[TBar1977 4,602]

31 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

what's the criteria for GOAT?  hs resume, college resume, international resume? all of the above? 

If the question is the greatest to ever come from a particular state then include everything, but if its the best high school wrestler from the state then only high school results should count.

[portajohn 463]

9 hours ago, Drew87 said:

State GOAT on the High School side for NJ would be tough bc Blair does their own thing.  That said, I don’t think anyone from Blair is better than Suriano.  If you want to include Blair I’d field the Mocco argument.

You'd have to throw Damion Hahn into the mix.  At least for consideration