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Did your state GOAT come from the pool of undefeated’s?

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Illinois has had several four time state champions even more so in the last ten years, (thanks three class system) but only one person to go undefeated over the course of four years: Josh Alber.  However I don't think he makes the top five if all time Illinois greats.  Off the top of my head the names in the conversation, not necessary in order, are as follows:

Joe Williams (one loss due to a slam call, four timer)
Eric Tannenbaum (four time finalist, three time champ)
Austin O'Conner (four timer)
Rudy Yates (three timer, as dominant as I have ever seen anyone his JR and SR year)
Mike Mena (I believe he was a four timer)
Albert White (four timer)
TJ Williams (four timer)
Izzy Martinez (three timer with one career loss due to a slam call, undoubtedly would have won state as a senior had he not been a tool and kicked off the team)

Edited by Big Nasty
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22 minutes ago, portajohn said:

You'd have to throw Damion Hahn into the mix.  At least for consideration 

He has just as good of an argument as any other public school guy, only 2 loses as a freshman at 171 , still took 2nd in the state, then was untouchable for 3 years, went to college and was 4x AA and 2 x national champ, he d have my vote just because he started a 171 and ash and suriano both started at 103 ...a lot easier to beat 103 pounders when you are 14/15 years old compared to 189 pounders 

2 hours ago, TobusRex said:

Ashnault was also in college for, what, 27 years? 

He went Redshirt, 8th, 4th, 6th, injury redshirt, national champ ...I don’t think he was even 25 when he won his title 

2 hours ago, Gasman1 said:

I'd go Ashnault over Suriano...  both 4x undefeated state champs but Ash had a better NCAA career with 4 aa finishes.  And far less drama. 

Suriano was better nationally in high school then ashanult ...add in the fact that suriano only has wrestled 3 years of college, still made 2 NCAA finals...ashnault also benefited by the fact that the 2 best guys around his weight and age went to blair (Mark grey and Joey McKenna) ..I don’t remember anyone that level going to blair when suriano was in high school

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22 minutes ago, Big Nasty said:

Illinois has had several four time state champions even more so in the last ten years, (thanks three class system) but only one person to go undefeated over the course of four years: Josh Alber.  However I don't think he makes the top five if all time Illinois greats.  Off the top of my head the names in the conversation, not necessary in order, are as follows:

Joe Williams (one loss due to a slam call, four timer)
Eric Tannenbaum (four time finalist, three time champ)
Austin O'Conner (four timer)
Rudy Yates (three timer, as dominant as I have ever seen anyone his JR and SR year)
Mike Mena (I believe he was a four timer)
Albert White (four timer)
TJ Williams (four timer)
Izzy Martinez (three timer with one career loss due to a slam call, undoubtedly would have won state as a senior had he not been a tool and kicked off the team)

+Reggie Wright 4xer

But the the IL goat is Joe Williams. Pick an age group and he wins from kids club to seniors.

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1 minute ago, bnwtwg said:

+Reggie Wright 4xer

But the the IL goat is Joe Williams. Pick an age group and he wins from kids club to seniors.

Reggie Wright was before my time so I only know his name.  I agree Joe Williams is the Illinois Goat by a mile.  He was incredible to watch wrestle.   

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1 hour ago, portajohn said:

PA it's Cary Kolat.  Not even debatable 

It’s certainly debatable...Marstellar won more matches and was also an undefeated 4x state champ. It’s the same logic people use to Cael above Uetake. Both undefeated in their college career and Uetake had much better freestyle results in college. Cael gets the nod because he won more matches. Why don’t we follow that rule in this high school debate?

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1 hour ago, Big Nasty said:

Illinois has had several four time state champions even more so in the last ten years, (thanks three class system) but only one person to go undefeated over the course of four years: Josh Alber.  However I don't think he makes the top five if all time Illinois greats.  Off the top of my head the names in the conversation, not necessary in order, are as follows:

But he has the best fan base. (Sisters)

Click Here

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1 hour ago, Big Nasty said:

Illinois has had several four time state champions even more so in the last ten years, (thanks three class system) but only one person to go undefeated over the course of four years: Josh Alber.  However I don't think he makes the top five if all time Illinois greats.  Off the top of my head the names in the conversation, not necessary in order, are as follows:

Joe Williams (one loss due to a slam call, four timer)
Eric Tannenbaum (four time finalist, three time champ)
Austin O'Conner (four timer)
Rudy Yates (three timer, as dominant as I have ever seen anyone his JR and SR year)
Mike Mena (I believe he was a four timer)
Albert White (four timer)
TJ Williams (four timer)
Izzy Martinez (three timer with one career loss due to a slam call, undoubtedly would have won state as a senior had he not been a tool and kicked off the team)

Mena was 4x undefeated.  Joey Gilbert was the first large school 4x champ and Joe Williams became the second the next year.  Tony Cassioppi was pretty freaking dominant in high school.  Mikey Benefiel was another outstanding HS wrestler in the last decade + in Illinois.

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what's the criteria for GOAT?  hs resume, college resume, international resume? all of the above? 

This thread along with the thread on undefeated in high school folkstyle, go together to find evidence that we sometimes choose a GOAT with a loss.

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7 minutes ago, Konquest said:

Mena was 4x undefeated.  Joey Gilbert was the first large school 4x champ and Joe Williams became the second the next year.  Tony Cassioppi was pretty freaking dominant in high school.  Mikey Benefiel was another outstanding HS wrestler in the last decade + in Illinois.

I forgot about Mikey. Big Cass is probably the best heavyweight to come out of the state.  He was so far ahead of the rest of the state!

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1 hour ago, Eagle26 said:

It’s certainly debatable...Marstellar won more matches and was also an undefeated 4x state champ. It’s the same logic people use to Cael above Uetake. Both undefeated in their college career and Uetake had much better freestyle results in college. Cael gets the nod because he won more matches. Why don’t we follow that rule in this high school debate?

Kolat took 3rd at Midlands when he was a sophomore in High School. Also in High School won the French Open and placed 4th at US Nationals.  Also while in high school Kolat beat NCAA champ Sean O'Day.  Its not debatable. It's why many consider him the greatest high school wrestler ever

Edited by portajohn

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3 hours ago, Chucktown_Luke said:

For South Dakota the HS GOAT conversation really includes Randy Lewis (undefeated in HS), Lincoln Mcilravy(5x State Champ) and Logan Storley(6x state champ). I lean towards Randy Lewis but I think its a worthwhile debate if just examining HS careers. 

Randy would probably tell you that it's Lincoln. Also, Randy was NOT undefeated in HS...he dropped two close decisions as an 89 lber wrestling in the 98 lb division as a freshman. A true freshman at that LOL. 

Kirk Wallman went 201-0-0 from 7th grade on, however, and was first to win 6 titles. Wallman, Storley and McIlravy were from the small school division. McIlravy and Storley also took losses- Storley took one as a junior- pin loss to Preston Lehmann from ND, as he was on the precipice of teching Lehmann. McIlravy as a 7th grader...not sure if he lost one as an 8th grader.

 

Edited by BadgerMon

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1 minute ago, BadgerMon said:

Randy would probably tell you that it's Lincoln. Also, Randy was NOT undefeated in HS...he dropped two close decisions as an 89 lber wrestling in the 98 lb division as a freshman. A true freshman at that LOL. 

Kirk Wallman went 201-0-0 from 7th grade on, however, and was first to win 6 titles. Wallman, Storley and McIlravy were from the small school division. McIlravy and Storley also took losses- Storley took one as a senior- pin loss to Preston Lehmann from ND, as he was on the precipice of teching Lehmann. 

 

I forgot about Lewis losing as a freshman. I wrestled in the finals following the Lehman pin on Storley. Never have wrestled a more silent match in my life. You could hear a pin drop in the gym.

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Ohio HS

Logan Steiber, HS4xer 184-1. 4xNCAA champ.

Mark Zimmer, first 4xer. He graduated with 143 consecutive wins(third all time) and went on to become an NCAA All-American at both Wisconsin and Oklahoma.

Jim Jordan(HS 156–1)2xNCAA champ and Jeff Jordan(2xNCAA AA) Both 4xers. They lost one career high school match apiece, but never in the state tournament.

There are a bunch of other 4xers. (twenty nine) It has to be Steiber first and then everyone else in some order.

I picked Zimmer because he was a hero to us wrestling kids and Jordans because of only two losses between them. I know I'm gonna take some grief.

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59 minutes ago, Drew87 said:

I thought about that, and if Hahn’s in there Campolattano and Ashnault certainly deserve a nod too.

Camp lost as a junior and senior (out of state) and had a very disappointing career after that ...Hahn and ashnault continued to dominate post high school, Hahn being a 2x champ

Steve Mocco is the probably the goat , no doubt he would’ve been a 4x champ if he went to public school , he was man among boys 

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6 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Camp lost as a junior and senior (out of state) and had a very disappointing career after that ...Hahn and ashnault continued to dominate post high school, Hahn being a 2x champ

I'm only aware of the one loss in HS. 175-1. Only loss to Mike Evans Blair.

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10 hours ago, TobusRex said:

He'd HAVE to be, just going by HS records. Count in college and it's Spencer Lee by a country mile. 

If the Desanto match hadn't happened it would be Spencer by a mile in high school too. Undefeated 4x with multiple world titles.

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1 hour ago, Mphillips said:

Ohio HS

Logan Steiber, HS4xer 184-1. 4xNCAA champ.

Mark Zimmer, first 4xer. He graduated with 143 consecutive wins(third all time) and went on to become an NCAA All-American at both Wisconsin and Oklahoma.

Jim Jordan(HS 156–1)2xNCAA champ and Jeff Jordan(2xNCAA AA) Both 4xers. They lost one career high school match apiece, but never in the state tournament.

There are a bunch of other 4xers. (twenty nine) It has to be Steiber first and then everyone else in some order.

I picked Zimmer because he was a hero to us wrestling kids and Jordans because of only two losses between them. I know I'm gonna take some grief.

No DT??? Head to head over Steiber. Big win over fellow 4xer Palmer up a weight. 

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1 hour ago, portajohn said:

Kolat took 3rd at Midlands when he was a sophomore in High School. Also in High School won the French Open and placed 4th at US Nationals.  Also while in high school Kolat beat NCAA champ Sean O'Day.  Its not debatable. It's why many consider him the greatest high school wrestler ever

Pico was runner-up at the Olympic Trials and had wins over multiple NCAA Champs. I would easily pick him over Kolat based off accomplishments in high school. 

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5 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

what's the criteria for GOAT?  hs resume, college resume, international resume? all of the above? 

I believe this thread is just for HS resume.

 

For CA:

- HS: Aaron Pico

- College: Stephen Abas

- International: Dave Schultz 

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38 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

I'm only aware of the one loss in HS. 175-1. Only loss to Mike Evans Blair.

You are correct the 2nd lose I was thinking of was a post season all star type meet , so not on his official record....He was 178-1 and lost to Evans at the Bethlehem tournament...the problem with camp is he didn’t have much success post high school, I believe he lost in the blood round as a freshman and I don’t remember him having much freestyle success...compare that to Hahn, suriano, ashnault and mocco are all national champs, I couldn’t put camp above any of them 

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40 minutes ago, goStanford18 said:

Pico was runner-up at the Olympic Trials and had wins over multiple NCAA Champs. I would easily pick him over Kolat based off accomplishments in high school. 

Definitely an argument can be made. Only problem is he didn't wrestle all 4 years of high school

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3 hours ago, BadgerMon said:

Randy would probably tell you that it's Lincoln. Also, Randy was NOT undefeated in HS...he dropped two close decisions as an 89 lber wrestling in the 98 lb division as a freshman. A true freshman at that LOL. 

Kirk Wallman went 201-0-0 from 7th grade on, however, and was first to win 6 titles. Wallman, Storley and McIlravy were from the small school division. McIlravy and Storley also took losses- Storley took one as a junior- pin loss to Preston Lehmann from ND, as he was on the precipice of teching Lehmann. McIlravy as a 7th grader...not sure if he lost one as an 8th grader.

The fact that Wallman was a 6-time high school state champion and went undefeated for 6 straight years (from the seventh grade on), probably makes him the GOAT of SD high school wrestling, even though his post high school career didn't nearly measure up to that of many others.

If you consider post high school accomplishments, then it's probably a toss up between Lewis and McIlravy for the top spot.  Lincoln won 5 state titles and was undefeated from his freshman year on, with 129 consecutive wins.  Randy, as mentioned, went undefeated his last 3 years of high school and held the national consecutive pin record at the time.  

Lewis's consecutive pin streak was a long standing state record that was just broken last year.  That record is now owned by Nash Hutmacher with 73 consecutive pins.  In fact, if only considering high school accomplishments, I would have to put Hutmacher right up there just behind Wallman -- and perhaps even just ahead of Lincoln and Randy (and then Storley).  Hutmacher was a 4-time undefeated state champion with 166 consecutive victories -- and he did it all as a heavyweight (including as a freshman!).

Edited by Icemeister

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