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Did your state GOAT come from the pool of undefeated’s?

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43 minutes ago, BadgerMon said:

One iota of info that is difficult to find on the web, is that Lewis won the Jr World Freestyle in 1977, just a few of months after he graduated from high school. The man he beat for the gold was Tomiyama from Japan, who happened to win the MEN'S World Freestyle championship in 1978, another WC in 1979, and Olympic Gold ( over Barry Davis) in 1984.. 

Did Lewis wrestle in the events won by Tomiyama?

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On 4/14/2021 at 10:18 AM, CA_Wrestler said:

If 1 year of wrestling is eligible for this discussion, Pico is definitely #1 by far as you stated. 

If it has to be all 4 years, then I'd definitely say #1 Zahid Valencia and #2 Anthony Valencia.  Just because of all the tournaments they won while in HS.  Not just within the state, but nationally in the biggest folkstyle tournaments like Ironman, Super 32, Flonationals, CK Folkstyle nationals, etc. 

For sheer high school dominance, based upon what my eyeballs have seen in California over the last ~15 years, IMar, McIntosh, and Jason Welch were all as dominant as Anthony and Zahid during high school. IMO, I'd place those three a notch above above the Valencia's, but an argument can be made for the Valencia's as well.  I just missed personally seeing Varner and Billy Murphy in high school, but my impression is that they were equally dominant in high school as the other names on here. 

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1 hour ago, Return of Aztec said:

For sheer high school dominance, based upon what my eyeballs have seen in California over the last ~15 years, IMar, McIntosh, and Jason Welch were all as dominant as Anthony and Zahid during high school. IMO, I'd place those three a notch above above the Valencia's, but an argument can be made for the Valencia's as well.  I just missed personally seeing Varner and Billy Murphy in high school, but my impression is that they were equally dominant in high school as the other names on here. 

In the last 15 years, I would personally go with McIntosh. edit: (if we're excluding Pico)

 

I don't think anyone scored any offensive points against McIntosh in folkstyle during his Junior and Senior years. I don't know if anyone was competitive with him his senior year. He was destroying everyone from 189-215. He split matches against future teammate Ed Ruth @ 84kg Junior FS Nationals in the spring of 2010. Here's the match he won. McIntosh was still a high school junior, and Ed Ruth was months away from dominating the NCAA. Here's McIntosh manhandling Gabe Dean their senior years @ FloNationals. After his senior season ended, McIntosh bumped all the up to 215 for junior freestyle nationals and destroyed the field there. Here's him dominating a younger Adam Coon. Spoiler: he hits Coon with an arm throw and pins him in the first.

 

I'm always surprised McIntosh didn't have a more successful college career. I wonder if he would have won a couple of national titles down at 184. He looked like a small 197lber as a true freshman. He entered NCAAs as the 3 seed as a sophomore, but placed 7th. He placed 3/2 as a junior/senior. After some more thought, he was blocked by Wright as a true freshman and by Ruth as RS sophomore. Cox and/or Snyder were in his brackets his sophomore-senior seasons.

 

Fun fact: McIntosh is only one of two wrestlers to beat both Cox and Snyder in college. The other is Gadson. McIntosh is the only one to do it in the same season 

 

 

Edited by goStanford18

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On 4/14/2021 at 11:42 AM, Drew87 said:

That dude to this day hit one of the prettiest back arches in one of his Greco Olympics matches, maybe it was even to earn his Bronze?

Why is minnesota so dang good at greco anyway?

I think it could be due to the fact that in the late 60's and early 70's Alan Rice started the Minnesota Wrestlilng Club.  Three of his best wrestlers, and all Olympians Jim and Dave Hazewinkle and Gary Alexander.  http://www.mtcstorm.com/staff/detail/alan-rice/5

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On 4/13/2021 at 3:52 PM, BadgerMon said:

Zimmer also only lost just one.

Even though he was 139-3 and placed 3-1-1-1 in the state tournament, I like Alan Fried as one of the greatest high schoolers of all-time.  He was the first to win 4 junior national titles and one year he had both Brands and Lincoln McIlravy in his pool.

 

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On 4/13/2021 at 9:48 AM, Big Nasty said:

Illinois has had several four time state champions even more so in the last ten years, (thanks three class system) but only one person to go undefeated over the course of four years: Josh Alber.  However I don't think he makes the top five if all time Illinois greats.  Off the top of my head the names in the conversation, not necessary in order, are as follows:

Joe Williams (one loss due to a slam call, four timer)
Eric Tannenbaum (four time finalist, three time champ)
Austin O'Conner (four timer)
Rudy Yates (three timer, as dominant as I have ever seen anyone his JR and SR year)
Mike Mena (I believe he was a four timer)
Albert White (four timer)
TJ Williams (four timer)
Izzy Martinez (three timer with one career loss due to a slam call, undoubtedly would have won state as a senior had he not been a tool and kicked off the team)

How about Joey Gilbert ....one loss 4 time state champion (Tinley Park) (also first 4 timer in the big schools)

  Mena was a 4 timer.

Edited by fadzaev2

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36 minutes ago, fadzaev2 said:

Even though he was 139-3 and placed 3-1-1-1 in the state tournament, I like Alan Fried as one of the greatest high schoolers of all-time.  He was the first to win 4 junior national titles and one year he had both Brands and Lincoln McIlravy in his pool.

 

I don't disagree. Fried was a badass. 

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21 hours ago, BadgerMon said:

One iota of info that is difficult to find on the web, is that Lewis won the Jr World Freestyle in 1977, just a few of months after he graduated from high school. The man he beat for the gold was Tomiyama from Japan, who happened to win the MEN'S World Freestyle championship in 1978, another WC in 1979, and Olympic Gold ( over Barry Davis) in 1984.. 

That is impressive -- and a fact that I was unaware of.  Based on his junior world freestyle championship (prior to the start of his first college season) and the man he beat, it would be very difficult to make anyone else South Dakota's GOAT besides Randy Lewis.  But certainly McIlravy is right there as well.  As I said in my first post on this topic, it's probably a toss-up between them.  Lewis had the national pin streak and freestyle world championship.  McIlravy finished his high school career with 5 state championships and undefeated from his freshman year on.  Lincoln ended up with slightly better collegiate results (but probably only because Randy got injured his senior year).  Their post college international success is probably similar.  Lewis did get the Olympic gold that McIlravy failed to; but without the Soviet block countries participating in 1984, it probably doesn't hold quite as much weight as it would otherwise.  The bottom line is that I really have a difficult time picking between the two.  Can they both share the GOAT title for South Dakota?

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19 hours ago, goStanford18 said:

Fun fact: McIntosh is only one of two wrestlers to beat both Cox and Snyder in college. The other is Gadson. McIntosh is the only one to do it in the same season 

That is a fun fact. To me, he always looked like an 84 pounder in the 97 class in college, but I have no idea if 84 wasn't attainable, or if it was and he couldn't beat out the other guys there. In an alternate history, he would have wrestled at a different college and wrestled  Wright and Ruth in the NCAA's instead of the wrestling room. 

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I think either in the finals or the semis, Levesseur majored Ben Askren at that tournament, if my memory serves me correctly.

The result is correct but I believe it was at a tournament called the bi-state classic or something like that. Levessuer would go to Minnesota and then transfer to D3 Augsburg and have an undefeated collegiate career for those unfamiliar. Was a top overall recruit in his class.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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On 4/15/2021 at 2:52 AM, Crotalus said:

Oh, yes. Schatzman is in the discussion. That's why I said there are a few guys you might put over him. It all depends on how much you value the zero in the losses column. Even without college/senior results, J'Den would be in the discussion, too. He had 3 losses, but all his freshmen year at 171 (I believe), which is a tough weight for a HS freshman to win, and in class 4. He also was a Fargo FS and Greco champ, splitting 4 matches with Kyle Snyder. Another guy would be TJ Hill. Also with 3 losses his freshman year. He teched or pinned everyone his last 3 years of HS, though he didn't wrestle above 119 and in class 3A (the middle division during the 3 class days). He also had national success, though I don't remember his results. Eierman was in the smallest class, which hurts him, but he did tech/pin his way through the state tournament every year (I believe).

TJ hill is my Goat for Missouri goat. Fargo finishes:

Junior Free champ 96 & 97 2nd in 95 & 98

Greco Junior Champ 95,96 & 97 2nd 98

Cadet Free Champ 95

1x NCAA D1 AA in his only year. 4x state champ. Schatzman is next. Jaydin Eierman being undefeated in Missouri’s small class hurts him high school wise. Several wrestlers I would place above him. 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/13/2021 at 9:44 PM, Gantry said:

Kolat also tied Chris Bono at Dapper Dan his senior year, right?  That's a hard one to get over for me every time this comes up...  I know Kolat won a HS senior nationals bracket after that Bono was in but the greatest of all time shouldn't have tied a fellow high schooler in his final home state match.

I was at that match. Bono put a mean ride on Kolat for the entire 3rd period. Basically, he bullied Kolat. He titled him,; he cross-faced him and Kolat was very lucky to have gotten out of the period without giving up back points.  He certainly got the benefit of the doubt on a couple of close calls.

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No love for Matt Demaray from MN? I know he had a few losses, but when he made the finals as an 8th grader, that was unheard of at the time. He won 3 in a row before being shocked in semis as a senior. He then won 2x NCAA titles at Wiscy, and then 4 straight US opens. He beat B Satiev at the ‘94 World Cup as well. He “looked” more like a D1 wrestler as a freshman than anyone I’ve ever seen. 

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(VA) Cody Gardner had 6 losses. Xtiansburg wrestled a brutal schedule. The state tournament had to be the 3rd weakest event on their schedule (just ahead of the district and region).

Edited by jackwebster

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On 4/16/2021 at 10:30 AM, Icemeister said:

That is impressive -- and a fact that I was unaware of.  Based on his junior world freestyle championship (prior to the start of his first college season) and the man he beat, it would be very difficult to make anyone else South Dakota's GOAT besides Randy Lewis.  But certainly McIlravy is right there as well.  As I said in my first post on this topic, it's probably a toss-up between them.  Lewis had the national pin streak and freestyle world championship.  McIlravy finished his high school career with 5 state championships and undefeated from his freshman year on.  Lincoln ended up with slightly better collegiate results (but probably only because Randy got injured his senior year).  Their post college international success is probably similar.  Lewis did get the Olympic gold that McIlravy failed to; but without the Soviet block countries participating in 1984, it probably doesn't hold quite as much weight as it would otherwise.  The bottom line is that I really have a difficult time picking between the two.  Can they both share the GOAT title for South Dakota?

Lewis also got screwed out of at least a World Silver up in Edmonton WCs....He defeated World Champ Shterev from Bulgaria in the semis, fair and square, and they didn't bother to count his last tilt to boot. Then the bloc went in a back room and gave the match to Shterev, who then lost to Sergei Belaglazov in the final. Lewis, dejected, lost to Hungarian Orban in bronze match. 

Shterev was funky good, as were Belaglazov and Lewis. Haven't seen any Orban tape.

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