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Did your state GOAT come from the pool of undefeated’s?

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4 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

True. But Angel actually lost once in high school and Henry had several losses to Nick Gallick his freshman year. Plus neither wrestled in college, though Henry sort of one upped that. Angel was one of the best though. His sophomore year he took apart a kid who was bigger and stronger and had basically just been preparing to beat him all year. Think Angel beat him by tech fall 16-1. 

I recall Angel being undefeated.  His wiki says he was 150-0, but that could be wrong.

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53 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

I recall Angel being undefeated.  His wiki says he was 150-0, but that could be wrong.

I know the teammates of the guy he lost to. Angel was losing and injury defaulted because he was cramping from the weight cut. It was like halfway through his freshman year. He didn't get to avenge the loss because the guy broke his elbow in the region semis and defaulted out. If you have a single loss in high school and it comes like that, I think that's exceptional and how many people wish they could be 4x state champions and be able to count their losses on a single hand. If anything it makes it more impressive he was able to go the rest of the way without losing again.

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On 4/21/2021 at 4:29 PM, BadgerMon said:

Lewis also got screwed out of at least a World Silver up in Edmonton WCs....He defeated World Champ Shterev from Bulgaria in the semis, fair and square, and they didn't bother to count his last tilt to boot. Then the bloc went in a back room and gave the match to Shterev, who then lost to Sergei Belaglazov in the final. Lewis, dejected, lost to Hungarian Orban in bronze match. 

Shterev was funky good, as were Belaglazov and Lewis. Haven't seen any Orban tape.

I think it's fair to note that Lewis replaced LeRoy Smith for that World Team in '82 at the last minute- LeRoy slipped and took a fall that injured his (shoulder)? badly enough to get scratched.

 

 

 

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Wisconsin's undefeated HS wrestlers include Kevin Black ( River Falls)  160-0 in the large school class. He was an AA once @ Wisconsin, then injured.

Matt Hanutke - PIttsville was 117-0 wrestling small school, and was an AA four times.

Jarod Donar - Cuba City was 189-0 wrestling small school. Wrestled for Wisconsin, but I believe he started out at Minnesota.

 

But what do you base the GOAT on? High School/college/international?  Then it's Ben Peterson. 3 X Olympian (gold + silver + no go to Moscow), 2X NCAA champ at Iowa State, 1 X State Runner-up.

Edited by BadgerMon
Misspelled Town Name

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On 5/19/2022 at 9:54 AM, Yellow_Medal said:

Based purely on High School, Kyle Sand has to be up there. He was also a JUCO and DII champ.
I was at the Pepsi Center when Clum was put on his back and man did it get loud!! For everyone but Brett Roller, the outcome was a foregone conclusion to Clum’s stellar career.
Ben Cherrington, Dean Lahr, Ryan Deakin, all have to enter the conversation if we are including college.

Any Colorado list has to include Cohlton Schultz.  He was a 4X state champion in the large school division, going undefeated in Colorado, with his only losses coming in the finals at Ironman his freshman and sophomore years.  Schultz was a two-time Ironman champ, a four-time Doc Buchanan champ (while giving a 4X California state champ his only loss of his high school career), a cadet Greco world champ and junior world Greco bronze and silver medalist -- all while in high school.  He's since added senior world teams and a runner-up NCAA finish to his resume.  Not only is it hard to leave him off the GOAT list for Colorado, it would be hard to not put him at the very top -- especially when just considering accomplishments during high school. And if we include post high school accomplishments, Ryan Deakin and Henry Cejudo would probably be the only ones who could so far stake a better claim for Colorado's GOAT than Schultz.  (With an Olympic title, it's hard to argue against Cejudo, but he grew up in Arizona, spending only his final two years of high school in Colorado.)

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Best, undefeated 4xer's from MI(5 out of the 31 total 4xers) would have to be:

1. Metcalf(228-0) in High School. A ton of Fargo stop signs. A win over D. Schlatter, with the loss at NHSCA Senior Nationals to Schlatter that didn't count on official record. 1,2,1 at NCAA's with only 3 total losses.  A bunch of World Teams.  Pretty hard to beat.

2.) Nick Simmons(211-0) in High School.  Was probably the most dominant for all 4 years of any wrestler I have ever seen in MI.  Other than his state finals match as a freshman against a REALLY GOOD senior(Dan Jones of Goodrich) at 103lbs, he SMOKED everyone.  Albeit, wrestling at very light weights all 4 years probably helped that a bit.  Still, he had solid success at national age level tournaments and would go on to be a 4x AA.  On top of that, he did make a World Team and was consistently a top contender.

3.) Taylor Massa(221-0) Now, looking at just High School accomplishments, he would have a VERY strong argument.  221-0 and went to and eventually won just about every national type tournament there was.  Almost AA'd as a true freshman, but finding out there was life outside of wrestling inevitably got in the way from there.

HM.) After that, Andy Simmons(219-0) probably did the best overall of the remaining guys, having AA'd twice.  Justin Zeerip(260-0) holds the MI record for career wins.  He did it in MI's smallest division, so it flew under the radar a tad, but he proved he was legit, taking 3rd at NHSCA Seniors, only losing to Sponseller and he would go on to wrestle at Michigan as a 4x NQ, losing in the R12 as a Senior.

Of the remaining 26 4xers that were not undefeated, these are the top guys I would go with:

1.)Adam Coon-(196-3) His only losses came as a freshman 215lber.  He would win it all again at 215, before wrestling his last 2 years at 285.  He would go on to become a 3x AA(R12 as a freshman) and 2x NCAA Finalist for Michigan, along with winning a World Silver Medal in Greco.

2.)Rogers Kish-(252-2)  His only losses also only came as a freshman, wrestling at a heavier weight(160).  He was really dominant his last 3 years and had considerable national success.  He would go on to Minnesota and go R12, 2nd, 3rd, R12 while wrestling with a nasty injury his senior season.

HM.) Devin Skatzka-(191-15)  He never had an undefeated season, but he would go on to AA for Indiana in 2019 and was seeded top 8 in 2020 so was awarded his 2nd AA honor.

Kevon Davenport, Stoney Buell, Alex Facundo and Casey Swiderski have most or all of their college years left to prove themselves.

Best of the NOT 4xers:

Many could argue that Mark Churella is the best to ever come from MI.  4x AA, 3x NCAA Champ sure makes for a compelling argument.  But, Mark was "only" a 1x High School State Champ.  So, the argument depends heavily on how you grade.

Another could be Kevin Jackson.  He was "only" a 2x State Champ.  But, he was a 4x AA(never winning) and he would go on to become an Olympic Gold Medalist and 2x World Gold Medalist.

Other guys with strong arguments:

Zeke Jones- He was another that was "only" a 1xer, but he would end up a 3x AA and 1x Finalist at ASU.  After that, he would win an Olympic Silver along with World Gold and Bronze.

Andre Metzger-Another guy that was "only" a 1xer, he would become a 4x AA and 2x Champ placing 5th,2nd,1st,1st. He would then go on to make 4 World Teams winning a Silver and a Bronze.

Greg Johnson-A 2xer for Lansing Everett he would go on to wrestle for Michigan State. Due to injury, he only wrestled 3 post seasons but won NCAA's all 3 times!

A few more to come....

Chris Taylor-Didn't start wrestling until his junior year in High School, but did take 1st that year and 2nd as a senior.  He would go on to win a JC Title and take 3rd the following year for Muskegon CC, before going to ISU and going 87-0-1 with 70 wins by FALL.  He would then make an Olympic team in both Free and Greco taking Bronze in Free and being on the losing end of one of the most Iconic throws of all time in his 1st match of Greco!

John Fisher-Although "only" 1 1xer he would go on to wrestle for Michigan and place 4th,4th,3rd, 4th to become a 4xAA.  He also became their all time win leader with 183 wins.  He was pretty damn good in freestyle too, but had the misfortune of having to wrestle either John Smith or Tom Brands to make the team.

Jimmy Jackson-Yet another 1xer that would go on to win 3 NCAA Titles for Oklahoma State.  He was also an Olympian in 1976.

Steve Fraser- Another 1xer that was a 2x AA for Michigan.  He would go on to win Olympic Gold in Greco.

Finally, a few more names that I personally feel compelled to mention:

Gabe Dean-Another on the long list of successful 1xers(he was a 3x Finalist, though).  He would go on to Cornell and finish 3rd,1st,1st, 2nd.  He was never really into Freestyle, but he did make a little run and gave David Taylor his toughest match domestically since he locked in at 86kg.

Cam Simaz-Has an argument for the most successful 3xer in MI.  Would wrestle for Cornell becoming a 4x AA finishing 8th,3r,3rd and 1st.  He didn't really purse freestyle wrestling and has been coaching ever since.  

Jon Reader-The other 3xer with a really solid argument.  He would end up wrestling for ISU under Sanderson and KJ, winning it with KJ.  He just missed being a 4x AA, placing 7th, 4th and R12 before becoming an Undefeated NCAA DI Champ as a Senior.  He would end up a 2x World Team Member as well...

Edited by MSU158

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On 5/18/2022 at 8:36 PM, TripNSweep said:

I would say now Arizona has a clear cut #1. It's RBY. 182-0 and 4x state champion. 3x AA and 2x NCAA champion. Behind him is Eric Larkin who narrowly missed being a 3x state champion and had a dominant senior year winning senior nationals and doubling up at Fargo. Then went 4, 3, 2, 1 at NCAAS for ASU. Both went to the same high school btw. 

You think Larkin had a better HS career than Nori Yamamoto?  3, 1, 1, 1.    Didn't Nori only lose in OT once his freshman year in the state tournament?  I can't remember.

I guess I can see that argument since Larkin won hs nationals and fargo, but I'd still have to say Nori only because prior to living here, he'd never wrestled folk before. 

That's a hell of a transition.

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3 hours ago, CA_Wrestler said:

You think Larkin had a better HS career than Nori Yamamoto?  3, 1, 1, 1.    Didn't Nori only lose in OT once his freshman year in the state tournament?  I can't remember.

I guess I can see that argument since Larkin won hs nationals and fargo, but I'd still have to say Nori only because prior to living here, he'd never wrestled folk before. 

That's a hell of a transition.

Yeah but Nori never went to college here. He didn't have good enough grades and his English wasn't the best. The reason he ended up at the high school he did was because the school he was supposed to attend didn't have anyone on campus who spoke Japanese. He was almost untouchable in high school but I guess there were some misconceptions about how the college admissions process worked here so back to Japan to shoot gangsters in the face with a BB gun he went. 

I forget how many losses Nori had in high school, his freshman year he lost to Mike Alcala who placed 3rd at senior nationals that year. After that I think he may have lost 1 or 2 more times but if that happened it was because of some fluke folkstyle thing. One of his coaches told me he occasionally would get in trouble wrestling on the mat because he didn't know what to be worried about, but it was pretty rare that happened. So if he did rack up a few losses that was how. Nobody was going to beat him in neutral that was for sure. 

Edited by TripNSweep

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4 hours ago, MSU158 said:

, .Andre Metzger-Another guy that was "only" a 1xer, he would become a 4x AA and 2x Champ placing 5th,2nd,1st,1st. He would then go on to make 4 World Teams winning a Silver and a Bronze.

Didn't Metzger leave Michigan during high school to go to Japan? I seem to remember somebody mentioning that. 

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Any Colorado list has to include Cohlton Schultz.  He was a 4X state champion in the large school division, going undefeated in Colorado, with his only losses coming in the finals at Ironman his freshman and sophomore years.  Schultz was a two-time Ironman champ, a four-time Doc Buchanan champ (while giving a 4X California state champ his only loss of his high school career), a cadet Greco world champ and junior world Greco bronze and silver medalist -- all while in high school.  He's since added senior world teams and a runner-up NCAA finish to his resume.  Not only is it hard to leave him off the GOAT list for Colorado, it would be hard to not put him at the very top -- especially when just considering accomplishments during high school. And if we include post high school accomplishments, Ryan Deakin and Henry Cejudo would probably be the only ones who could so far stake a better claim for Colorado's GOAT than Schultz.  (With an Olympic title, it's hard to argue against Cejudo, but he grew up in Arizona, spending only his final two years of high school in Colorado.)

Yes, I definitely spaced out on Schultz.


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17 hours ago, MSU158 said:

John Fisher . . . had the misfortune of having to wrestle John Smith

AND took a match from him. I'm not telling anybody anything they don't already know, but that series was super close. He had Smith on the ropes. Horseshoes and hand grenades, etc, I guess.  

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11 hours ago, Yellow_Medal said:

Yes, I definitely spaced out on Schultz.

And the other recent one that we both spaced out mentioning is Dominick Serrano.  While Schultz was undefeated in Colorado high school competition, he did have the two Ironman finals losses.  Serrano and Kyle Sand (both also wrestling in the large school divisions) are the only two Coloradans to run the table all 4 years of high school.  But, I think if you take everything into account, Schultz is a pretty easy call for Colorado's GOAT, with only Ryan Deakin (with his NCAA championship, junior world sliver medal, and US Open championship) a legitimate challenger if post high school accomplishments are factored in.

Edited by Icemeister

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And the other recent one that we both spaced out mentioning is Dominick Serrano.  While Schultz was undefeated in Colorado high school competition, he did have the two Ironman finals losses.  Serrano and Kyle Sand (both also wrestling in the large school divisions) are the only two Coloradans to run the table all 4 years of high school.  But, I think if you take everything into account, Schultz is a pretty easy call for Colorado's GOAT, with only Ryan Deakin (with his NCAA championship, junior world sliver medal, and US Open championship) a legitimate challenger if post high school accomplishments are factored in.

I think you have won me over to the Shultz is CO Goat camp, if post college is considered.

Good call on Serrano, my answers definitely show my bias towards my era.

If the highest level is to be a factor, I suppose Adeline Gray would be our GOAT.

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On 5/20/2022 at 5:38 PM, TripNSweep said:

Yeah but Nori never went to college here. He didn't have good enough grades and his English wasn't the best. The reason he ended up at the high school he did was because the school he was supposed to attend didn't have anyone on campus who spoke Japanese. He was almost untouchable in high school but I guess there were some misconceptions about how the college admissions process worked here so back to Japan to shoot gangsters in the face with a BB gun he went. 

I forget how many losses Nori had in high school, his freshman year he lost to Mike Alcala who placed 3rd at senior nationals that year. After that I think he may have lost 1 or 2 more times but if that happened it was because of some fluke folkstyle thing. One of his coaches told me he occasionally would get in trouble wrestling on the mat because he didn't know what to be worried about, but it was pretty rare that happened. So if he did rack up a few losses that was how. Nobody was going to beat him in neutral that was for sure. 

Oh yeah, I know about when he got into trouble in Japan.  Enson had to help him out big time.  Not too smart to shoot a yakuza in the face with a bb gun.

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33 minutes ago, CA_Wrestler said:

Oh yeah, I know about when he got into trouble in Japan.  Enson had to help him out big time.  Not too smart to shoot a yakuza in the face with a bb gun.

Well if he hadn't done that he probably wouldn't have gotten into mma. 

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31 minutes ago, CA_Wrestler said:

He would have probably stuck with freestyle wrestling though.

Most likely. He was extremely talented. I think he had beaten the guy who won a bronze at worlds or the Olympics for Japan. 

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41 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

Most likely. He was extremely talented. I think he had beaten the guy who won a bronze at worlds or the Olympics for Japan. 

It's too bad when he tried to come back at the 2007 Emperor's Cup that he dislocated his elbow against the bronze medalist (Kenji Inoue) from Athens in 2004 in the semifinals.  I remember watching the match the following day and couldn't believe that happened on the first takedown attempt by Inoue since Nori was wrestling really well.

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11 hours ago, CA_Wrestler said:

It's too bad when he tried to come back at the 2007 Emperor's Cup that he dislocated his elbow against the bronze medalist (Kenji Inoue) from Athens in 2004 in the semifinals.  I remember watching the match the following day and couldn't believe that happened on the first takedown attempt by Inoue since Nori was wrestling really well.

It's a shame his wrestling career got interrupted. I think he could have been really good. Didn't he beat Inoue before too?

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On 5/21/2022 at 11:46 AM, Yellow_Medal said:

I think you have won me over to the Shultz is CO Goat camp, if post college is considered.

If the highest level is to be a factor, I suppose Adeline Gray would be our GOAT.

Good point on Adeline Gray.  The original premise of this thread was to ask whether your state's GOAT was undefeated in high school.  Since Adeline didn't wrestle in high school, I didn't even think about her; but with 9 world medals, including 6 gold and an Olympic silver medal, she's perhaps the most successful of all US women's freestylers (with only Helen Maroulis in the same conversation).

As for the men's side, I think it's clearly Schultz if only considering accomplishments while a high schooler.  If he ends up eventually winning an NCAA title, then he'll likely have the GOAT title no matter what criteria is being considered.  But until then, I think if you factor in post high school success, Ryan Deakin also has to be part of that conversation given his NCAA title and equally impressive post high school freestyle accomplishments.  Since neither of their wrestling careers are over yet, we may need to revisit this debate again in a few years.

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2 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

It's a shame his wrestling career got interrupted. I think he could have been really good. Didn't he beat Inoue before too?

I can't remember right now.  I do remember trying to get any bit of info about how Nori was doing during the tournament in the middle of the night and somebody from Japan posted a link to the match on Sherdog.

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Iowa-

Dan Gable tops the list. ' Nuff said.

Jeff McGinness- 4 timer undefeated + 2 X NCAA champ.

Jeff Kerber was the first 4 year undefeated H.S. 3 x AA to come down the pike....DOMINANT in high school of course, and on the national scene.

 

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