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Sublime607

Americans and conditioning.

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It's no secret that we seem to have better gas tanks than the rest of the world when it comes to freestyle. Is this attributed to folkstyle or do we focus more on conditioning than everyone else. I have seen fans from other countries make doping accusations before because we just don't seem to gas like their guys do.

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11 minutes ago, Sublime607 said:

It's no secret that we seem to have better gas tanks than the rest of the world when it comes to freestyle. Is this attributed to folkstyle or do we focus more on conditioning than everyone else. I have seen fans from other countries make doping accusations before because we just don't seem to gas like their guys do.

Interesting question.  I have not watched enough to know the answer, but how do US women fair in terms of gas tanks? I think that would answer it right there.

Russians used to gas but I haven’t seen that since Tsargush really.  They seem to have their stuff figured out pretty well in recent years.  

That said, there is no doubt it takes a ton more effort to score a point in folkstyle at a high level than freestyle. There’s a reason college guys always show up off a season and bulldoze their way deep into a tournament or two with really rusty technique.  Folkstyle is more narrow in what it rewards, and commands more from the wrestler in terms of output.

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Just now, Drew87 said:

Interesting question.  I have not watched enough to know the answer, but how do US women fair in terms of gas tanks? I think that would answer it right there.

Russians used to gas but I haven’t seen that since Tsargush really.  They seem to have their stuff figured out pretty well in recent years.  

That said, there is no doubt it takes a ton more effort to score a point in folkstyle at a high level than freestyle. There’s a reason college guys always show up off a season and bulldoze their way deep into a tournament or two with really rusty technique.  Folkstyle is more narrow in what it rewards, and commands more from the wrestler in terms of output.

I just remember getting into it with a fan from England of all places during the 2018 world's because he was accusing Dake and Taylor of doping bases off their relentless pace and not even looking winded I mostly attributed it to our folksyle program and that you won't find two harder workers than those two. All of our Olympic team members make me proud because of the dedication it's taken them to even get to that point and hate when others try to discredit them or any other world wrestler with doping accusations. That should only be done if someone has a history of getting caught.

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2 minutes ago, Sublime607 said:

I just remember getting into it with a fan from England of all places during the 2018 world's because he was accusing Dake and Taylor of doping bases off their relentless pace and not even looking winded I mostly attributed it to our folksyle program and that you won't find two harder workers than those two. All of our Olympic team members make me proud because of the dedication it's taken them to even get to that point and hate when others try to discredit them or any other world wrestler with doping accusations. That should only be done if someone has a history of getting caught.

That’s hilarious in a number of ways. England has practically zero wrestling/grappling culture. And yeah, it’s hard to explain thousands of hours of conditioning to dudes who are used to drinking beer by 10AM half of the week.

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1 minute ago, Drew87 said:

That’s hilarious in a number of ways. England has practically zero wrestling/grappling culture. And yeah, it’s hard to explain thousands of hours of conditioning to dudes who are used to drinking beer by 10AM half of the week.

I know lol that's why I said England of all places I didn't even know they had wrestling fans until that point. Not really sure what his agenda was.

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2 hours ago, Sublime607 said:

I just remember getting into it with a fan from England of all places during the 2018 world's because he was accusing Dake and Taylor of doping bases off their relentless pace and not even looking winded I mostly attributed it to our folksyle program and that you won't find two harder workers than those two. All of our Olympic team members make me proud because of the dedication it's taken them to even get to that point and hate when others try to discredit them or any other world wrestler with doping accusations. That should only be done if someone has a history of getting caught.

Are you talking those two Wankers from England (of Indian decent)? I think there were only like, two English fans (and one English wrestler) at that whole tournament. If it's one of those two dudes, they were pretty funny and opinionated (and harmless)! I had to listen to them babble the entire time to my connecting flight in Europe but I didn't mind! LOL!

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Americans used to hang their hat on conditioning and to some degree still do but we’ve realized that technique is paramount. Guys like Taylor have amazing technique with conditioning to match.  You can win a big match here and there on conditioning but hard to win a full tournament without superior technique. 

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It's funny to imagine someone watching Dake and thinking he has a "relentless pace" that can only be the result of doping.

To answer the original question, I wonder if the step out rule has leveled the field a bit on conditioning. You can't go out of bounds to tske a break, so you have to be in good shape. That and the break between periods. When the match was one five minute go, conditioning could play more of a factor.

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26 minutes ago, IronChef said:

It's funny to imagine someone watching Dake and thinking he has a "relentless pace" that can only be the result of doping.

To be fair, the last couple of years, since he went up to 79kg, he has been pretty relentless. Definitely a different guy than he was in college, but still gets typecast as the defensive, low score kind of wrestler. I hope he can keep that up at 74kg. He looked pretty good at OTTs.

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Other countries just cannot grasp the metabolic conditioning laboratory that is a top high school or virtually any college wrestling room in America. Folk style, control-based wrestling is incredibly taxing and the culture of extreme conditioning and the camaraderie around it in a wrestling room breeds top level athletes on the farthest ends of the world-class fitness spectrum. This base from a young age in terms of training intensity know-how, mentality, and muscular and aerobic fitness is immeasurable. We're going to keep producing guys like Nick Lee who jump straight out of folk season and are able to bang with the  best in the world in large part due to other-worldly gas tanks and the confidence and persistence that breeds.

Edited by maligned

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On 4/13/2021 at 11:32 PM, AnklePicker said:

Americans used to hang their hat on conditioning and to some degree still do but we’ve realized that technique is paramount. Guys like Taylor have amazing technique with conditioning to match.  You can win a big match here and there on conditioning but hard to win a full tournament without superior technique. 

It has made American freestyle so much more fun to watch. We still have our edge in cardio, but use it much better now in conjunction with technique. Just a few years ago we couldn’t turn anyone - now a good % of our takedowns are right into turns. 
  
We legitimately may have the best #1s. I expect us to be fighting for team titles every year this next cycle. 

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12 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

Gas tanks are cool for relentless attacks, but give me the guy using less energy and scoring more points.



If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.
 

For sure. Zain and Metcalf determination and engine have a ceiling without dynamic scoring and counter ability. But with both, like in the cases of Dake, Cox, Taylor, Snyder, Burroughs--you get world champions. Without that famous US engine, the collective title count would be much less.

Edited by maligned

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For sure. Zain and Metcalf determination and engine have a ceiling without dynamic scoring and counter ability. But with both, like in the cases of Dake, Cox, Taylor, Snyder, Burroughs--you get world champions. Without that famous US engine, the collective title count would be much less.
Cox, Dake, Burroughs hang out and score when they choose, it's much more "international" style....
Snyder does just wear on people..... Constantly moving forward constantly heavy.
Taylor is the best argument for putting pace on people.... He wears them out and gets them in his funky wheelhouse and it's over.

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.

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On 4/13/2021 at 11:32 PM, AnklePicker said:

Americans used to hang their hat on conditioning and to some degree still do but we’ve realized that technique is paramount. Guys like Taylor have amazing technique with conditioning to match.  You can win a big match here and there on conditioning but hard to win a full tournament without superior technique. 

100% correct!

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Seems like training has come a long way. Most athletes/programs have really figured out periodization in their training. Unfortunately that usually means less competing, but they always look fresh and in shape when they do compete. Clean livin' goes a long way too. 

Some guys are just tank freaks too! LOL. 

 

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