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Anthony Valencia

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Huge for ASU. They now have returning AAs at 125, 133, 149 (transfer), 157, 165, hvwt. 
  
197 is a fairly likely AA (3 seed in 2021) and 174 has a solid Munoz in there. 
  
ASU is going to be even better next year. Potential for 100+ points

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4 hours ago, Housebuye said:

Huge for ASU. They now have returning AAs at 125, 133, 149 (transfer), 157, 165, hvwt. 
  
197 is a fairly likely AA (3 seed in 2021) and 174 has a solid Munoz in there. 
  
ASU is going to be even better next year. Potential for 100+ points

100 is a little overly optimistic...125 could have glory and Vito back, plus everyone else that placed, Courtney could go from 2nd to losing in the blood round and I don’t think it would be a shock...149 where Parco took 6th, now has presumably yianni and Nick Lee moving up, plus all the other placers are returning except Boo...197 will be deeper next season ...they had a great tournament but Idk if they improve on there point total...without suriano I don’t think they have a chance at 100 points 

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3 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

100 is a little overly optimistic...125 could have glory and Vito back, plus everyone else that placed, Courtney could go from 2nd to losing in the blood round and I don’t think it would be a shock...149 where Parco took 6th, now has presumably yianni and Nick Lee moving up, plus all the other placers are returning except Boo...197 will be deeper next season ...they had a great tournament but Idk if they improve on there point total...without suriano I don’t think they have a chance at 100 points 

It is optimistic, but within reason. They could very well have 7 seeded to AA.
Anthony can only go up from his 8th place finish abd 165 is much weaker next year.
 

Parco was a freshman AA. He could very well move up the podium. 
 

Hidlay is moving up from 157 (I know Jacori beat him, but that still helps). 
  
Schultz is another freshman AA. Especially at hvwt, guys tend to move up the podium as they age. Freshman almost never AA at hvwt.

125 has Vito and Glory. Id pick Vito over Courtney. Glory is a maybe. 

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8 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

It is optimistic, but within reason. They could very well have 7 seeded to AA.
Anthony can only go up from his 8th place finish abd 165 is much weaker next year.
 

Parco was a freshman AA. He could very well move up the podium. 
 

Hidlay is moving up from 157 (I know Jacori beat him, but that still helps). 
  
Schultz is another freshman AA. Especially at hvwt, guys tend to move up the podium as they age. Freshman almost never AA at hvwt.

125 has Vito and Glory. Id pick Vito over Courtney. Glory is a maybe. 

This rationale would be spot on in a normal offseason, but AA places (and NCAA berths, and championships) are basically a zero sum game going from this season to next. Right now, it looks like almost all (90%+) NCAA qualifiers are coming back. Maybe even less than zero sum, since more wrestlers (Ivies) will be competing for the same number for spots.

Valencia should absolutely improve. That looked like an awful injury, I was pretty shocked that he was able to come back from that and AA.

Either way, it should for sure be a fun year for ASU fans.

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1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

It is optimistic, but within reason. They could very well have 7 seeded to AA.
Anthony can only go up from his 8th place finish abd 165 is much weaker next year.
 

Parco was a freshman AA. He could very well move up the podium. 
 

Hidlay is moving up from 157 (I know Jacori beat him, but that still helps). 
  
Schultz is another freshman AA. Especially at hvwt, guys tend to move up the podium as they age. Freshman almost never AA at hvwt.

125 has Vito and Glory. Id pick Vito over Courtney. Glory is a maybe. 

I honestly don't think Antitroll likes ANY positivity for ANY program not named PSU.

However, ASU DESERVES some solid recognition.  Let's not act like Zeke took over a program that was tearing it up.  It takes time to change the culture and get the program moving the way you want it to go.  You don't just have a top recruiting class and then hit the ground running.  It takes time to get team chemistry, philosophy and momentum.  

I don't believe ASU will ever truly challenge PSU or Iowa and they would need tOSU not to rebound to stay with them.  OkState and Michigan are probably the closest teams on their radar to possibly compete with for consistency around the Top 5, but Michigan is probably on a more consistent rise so far and OkState is always a top 1 or 2 recruits away(which they can still easily land) from challenging PSU or Iowa again.

Edited by MSU158

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1 hour ago, MSU158 said:

I honestly don't think Antitroll likes ANY positivity for ANY program not named PSU.

However, ASU DESERVES some solid recognition.  Let's not act like Zeke took over a program that was tearing it up.  It takes time to change the culture and get the program moving the way you want it to go.  You don't just have a top recruiting class and then hit the ground running.  It takes time to get team chemistry, philosophy and momentum.  

I don't believe ASU will ever truly challenge PSU or Iowa and they would need tOSU not to rebound to stay with them.  OkState and Michigan are probably the closest teams on their radar to possibly compete with for consistency around the Top 5, but Michigan is probably on a more consistent rise so far and OkState is always a top 1 or 2 recruits away(which they can still easily land) from challenging PSU or Iowa again.

You forgot about Cornell, who I would also put above them in the tier with PSU and Iowa.  But I agree with this, especially after watching ASU perform at this year's tournament.  

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1 hour ago, ShakaAloha said:

You forgot about Cornell, who I would also put above them in the tier with PSU and Iowa.  But I agree with this, especially after watching ASU perform at this year's tournament.  

Agreed. I should have definitely included Cornell. Sad how the Ivies not competing allowed me to forget a team I have always been fond of. 

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4 hours ago, MSU158 said:

I honestly don't think Antitroll likes ANY positivity for ANY program not named PSU.

However, ASU DESERVES some solid recognition.  Let's not act like Zeke took over a program that was tearing it up.  It takes time to change the culture and get the program moving the way you want it to go.  You don't just have a top recruiting class and then hit the ground running.  It takes time to get team chemistry, philosophy and momentum.  

I don't believe ASU will ever truly challenge PSU or Iowa and they would need tOSU not to rebound to stay with them.  OkState and Michigan are probably the closest teams on their radar to possibly compete with for consistency around the Top 5, but Michigan is probably on a more consistent rise so far and OkState is always a top 1 or 2 recruits away(which they can still easily land) from challenging PSU or Iowa again.

ASU is now in position to get 10 guys into the NCAAs year after year. With half of those, or better, as top of the podium contenders. 

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8 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

You forgot about Cornell, who I would also put above them in the tier with PSU and Iowa.  But I agree with this, especially after watching ASU perform at this year's tournament.  

Cornell is pretty good, but they aren't up there with Iowa or PSU. 

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13 hours ago, jp157 said:

Culture change seems to always take longer in wrestling than other sports. I’ve seen very few coaches that are exception to this. It takes a lot of work

Awesome culture change..seems like just a year ago that ASU had to kick the best wrestler in school history off the team late in his senior year because of repeated failed drug tests 

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17 hours ago, MSU158 said:

I honestly don't think Antitroll likes ANY positivity for ANY program not named PSU.

However, ASU DESERVES some solid recognition.  Let's not act like Zeke took over a program that was tearing it up.  It takes time to change the culture and get the program moving the way you want it to go.  You don't just have a top recruiting class and then hit the ground running.  It takes time to get team chemistry, philosophy and momentum.  

I don't believe ASU will ever truly challenge PSU or Iowa and they would need tOSU not to rebound to stay with them.  OkState and Michigan are probably the closest teams on their radar to possibly compete with for consistency around the Top 5, but Michigan is probably on a more consistent rise so far and OkState is always a top 1 or 2 recruits away(which they can still easily land) from challenging PSU or Iowa again.

Maybe you are just a D-bag and don’t pay attention enough ,  you are the guy that’s on here arguing and fighting with people all the time 

isn’t anything I said incorrect ? Was anything about my assessment wrong ? 
 

jones has done so much to change the culture that the best wrestler in school history got the boot last year because he couldn’t lay off the blow 

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1 hour ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Maybe you are just a D-bag and don’t pay attention enough ,  you are the guy that’s on here arguing and fighting with people all the time 

isn’t anything I said incorrect ? Was anything about my assessment wrong ? 
 

jones has done so much to change the culture that the best wrestler in school history got the boot last year because he couldn’t lay off the blow 

I am?  My arguments are pretty much ONLY with a select few PSU blowhards.  If you were the one paying attention you would maybe note how intentional that is.

Did you mean this double negative?  "Isn't anything I said incorrect?"  I guess you were actually asking if you said anything incorrect?  Yes, you did.  100 is NOT overly optimistic, since the guy simply said "potential for 100+ points".  They EASILY have the POTENTIAL to do so.  This would even grow exponentially if they land Suriano.

As far as culture goes, didn't Zahid fail a drug test out of the country?  Did it effect his performance on the mat or the rest of his team's performance.  Did Ed Ruth crashing into a Taco Bell hurt his team's culture or performance?

Finally,

125: Courtney-16+ point "potential"

133:  McGee 10+ point "potential"  Suriano-20+ point potential

141:  Possible McGee or Parco 10+ point "potential depending on Suriano

149:  Parco-10 point potential.  This weight or 141 may be a hole if Suriano doesn't wrestle and McGee stays at 133, depending on what weight Parco goes. Vasquez could play a helpful factor in this.

157:  Teemer-12+ point potential

165:  Valencia-12+point potential

174:  Munoz-4+ point potential

184:  ?

197: Norfleet-10+ point potential

285:  Schultz-12+ point potential

Edited by MSU158

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41 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Awesome culture change..seems like just a year ago that ASU had to kick the best wrestler in school history off the team late in his senior year because of repeated failed drug tests 

Shrug. I didn’t say it was great. I was making the observation about culture change in general honestly. 
 

I think it’s a very glass house argument that you’re making though

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28 minutes ago, jp157 said:

Shrug. I didn’t say it was great. I was making the observation about culture change in general honestly. 
 

I think it’s a very glass house argument that you’re making though

Also, changing the cultures isn't exclusive to everyone singing "Kumbaya My Lord" while holding hands at the end of practice, saving kittens and helping old ladies cross the street.  It is about turning a program not used to winning into Pac 12 Champs and inevitably a top 5 team in the Country.  For added context, Stauffer was the ONLY guy that ASU qualified for NCAA's in 2014(The last season before Zeke took over).  He went 2-2 and was unseeded.  The next season he was the 3 seed and took 4th.  

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