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Max Dean to Penn State?

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12 minutes ago, klehner said:

People are entitled to their viewpoints and opinions.  They are not entitled to their own facts.

Yup, but what you are implying is that people should inherently trust the same people you do...which ultimately comes down to a matter of viewpoint and opinion.  Who you choose to trust and why you do so is inherently a product of your experience, which is valuable to and for you.  It is however, rather arrogant and lacking in empathy to angrily foist your experience on others, without taking the time to allow for the fact that they have in fact lived a different life than you, and may have navigated the landscape of life differently.

Getting mad at someone for the fact that they don’t see your authority figure as an authority figure is pretty fantastically egotistical. 

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6 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

The ivies did the right thing by canceling the season as painful as that was-they put the health of their athletes (and staff/faculty) first. Athletics should always come second-it's the entire point of Ivy League athletics. Given the vaccine situation, I have zero doubt that there will be a season this year though. I think to some it appears as if they have been overly harsh in canceling the season and will continue to be this way-but in reality the difference between a virus with zero population immunity and one with an available vaccine is immense.  I have been a huge proponent of playing it safe when it comes to Covid (over the past 12 months), but now that the vaccine is widely available, I am sure things will return back to complete normalcy in the near future.  

I'm on team covid is serious, but I'm not sure we can say "they did the right thing" since the NCAA D1 season was completed with IMO only a few disruptions,  not to mention I believe the Ivy League was still allowed to practice (plus RTC's of course) - so they probably weren't really being much safer than anyone else.

Edited by 1032004

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1 hour ago, Drew87 said:

Yup, but what you are implying is that people should inherently trust the same people you do...which ultimately comes down to a matter of viewpoint and opinion.  Who you choose to trust and why you do so is inherently a product of your experience, which is valuable to and for you.  It is however, rather arrogant and lacking in empathy to angrily foist your experience on others, without taking the time to allow for the fact that they have in fact lived a different life than you, and may have navigated the landscape of life differently.

Getting mad at someone for the fact that they don’t see your authority figure as an authority figure is pretty fantastically egotistical. 

To make your point even more obvious, the so called national "experts"  telling us all how dumb we are provide contradictory guidance that other experts from equally prestigious backgrounds completely disagree with. 

If the "experts" making policy want people to actually follow along, they need to be a lot more honest and a lot less political because right now 1/2 the population is totally fed up with them and they are not going to just play along anymore. 

I am fully vaccinated, btw. I say that not to you, Drew, but to those who would lecture you (and me). My statement above is an observable fact, not a policy position of mine. 

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5 hours ago, 9insoft said:

The whole point is we are in a holding pattern in the Ivies and if they can’t set a clear path forward...there will be no winter sports... it will only take a positive or 2 to have the excuse to dump it again.....

I get it...the athletes are being tested 3 times a week and practicing on campus. But that’s it...

By some of the thoughts on this thread Max Dean did the right thing jumping off the sinking Ivy League ship.

I don't personally know Rob Koll.  All I can tell you is the coaches that I do know seem pretty certain that fall sports are going to happen at all the Ivies (This is coming from conversations I've had with coaches at Cornell, Dartmouth, and Penn).  Whilst I don't think that decision makers at all the Ivies are what I would call 'totally supportive' of athletics as an endeavor I think it's equally true that they get plenty of pressure from alumni groups that want to see the schools and conference continue to support different sports.  Cornell receives a significant amount of funding from wealthy donors as well as from a broader group of supportive alumni.  They have certainly been cautious, and probably with the info they had at the time did the right thing, but equally I think an effort will be made to make sure that sports happen this upcoming year.

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59 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

To make your point even more obvious, the so called national "experts"  telling us all how dumb we are provide contradictory guidance that other experts from equally prestigious backgrounds completely disagree with. 

If the "experts" making policy want people to actually follow along, they need to be a lot more honest and a lot less political because right now 1/2 the population is totally fed up with them and they are not going to just play along anymore. 

Completely agree with you here. And what you said above can go for each levels of this thing. From federal people to state people (I say ‘people’ so to not only encompass elected officials) to we the people. And is equally abundant on both sides. Not just with the virus but with a lot of issues facing us. And it’s my strong belief that until the vast majority of all those people realize this and realize how it’s more dangerous to us than any policies, the longer it’s going to be to turn corners. 

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6 hours ago, klehner said:

They aren't in a f***ing holding pattern:  they are slowly opening up sports as they deem safe.  Some teams are competing now.

What sports in Ivy are competing?

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2 hours ago, 9insoft said:

What sports in Ivy are competing?

Cornell rowing literally just sent an email out saying they've been given the green light to compete for the remainder of the spring and that they will be attending the IRA (national championships for crew).

 

Also, re fall 2021 competition see the following:

 

Dear Big Red:

The Ivy League Presidents met last week and decided to share with you their intent for the Ivy League to return to regular competition in the fall, barring extraordinary circumstances.  We view this as terrific news and want to reassure you that we are continuing to move ahead with plans for a full schedule of Ivy League athletics during the 2021-22 academic year.  Despite the challenges of this year, we respect the work you and your coaches have done to maximize preparation and training for this expected return.  We look forward to experiencing the competitive sights and sounds of intercollegiate athletics that have been sorely missed by us all this year.  Please see the following statement from the Council of Ivy League Presidents. 

 

Joint Statement from the Council of Ivy League Presidents

Planning For Return to Regular Competition Beginning Fall 2021

At each of our campuses, we are busily planning for the fall semester. As is prudent given all the uncertainty around the course of this pandemic, we are each planning for a range of possible scenarios. But given the current steady decline of Covid-19 infections in this country, and the broad availability and uptake of vaccinations, we are optimistic that our campuses will be back to something close to normal by this fall, including in-person learning with students in residence. And this includes our expectation for the resumption of regular competitive schedules for Ivy League athletics across all sports beginning in fall 2021.

We know that this has been a challenging year for Ivy League student-athletes – as it has for our entire campuses, our country and the world at large – and we very much look forward to a return to spirited athletics competition and to the Ivy League rivalries that make our conference so special. Barring unanticipated circumstances, such as a dramatic increase in infection rates from a variant in the virus, we look forward to welcoming our teams back to intercollegiate competition this fall.

 

Ivy League Council of Presidents

Christina Paxson, Brown University
Lee Bollinger, Columbia University
Martha Pollack, Cornell University
Philip Hanlon, Dartmouth College
Lawrence Bacow, Harvard University
Amy Gutmann, University of Pennsylvania
Christopher Eisgruber, Princeton University
Peter Salovey, Yale University

Edited by cu155

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52 minutes ago, cangemi said:

Yikes, country truly divided.

All depends what channel you watch

Main street media vs fox.

Who do you believe?

Neither, find where they both benefit from manufactured conflict and you are on the way to successfully using your bs detector.

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6 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

To make your point even more obvious, the so called national "experts"  telling us all how dumb we are provide contradictory guidance that other experts from equally prestigious backgrounds completely disagree with. 

Can you give me some examples of this contradictory guidance?  Thanks.

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52 minutes ago, Drew87 said:

Neither, find where they both benefit from manufactured conflict and you are on the way to successfully using your bs detector.

Yes that makes the most sense.

But " good luck with trying get that"

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55 minutes ago, klehner said:

Can you give me some examples of this contradictory guidance?  Thanks.

If you haven't been able to figure some of this out then you need to get outside your little echo chamber. I am not going to point out the obvious for you, just change the channel once in a while. It won't kill you and you will hear things that you quite obviously have not considered. 

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9 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

If you haven't been able to figure some of this out then you need to get outside your little echo chamber. I am not going to point out the obvious for you, just change the channel once in a while. It won't kill you and you will hear things that you quite obviously have not considered. 

translation: I write posts that sound sorta profound but have no idea what I am talking about.

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4 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

translation: I write posts that sound sorta profound but have no idea what I am talking about.

Nah, translation: it’s like godd*mn iowa vs oklahoma state out there, but for everything.  Some people only believe what their brands brothers and gable say, some people only believe what their john smith says, neither of them trusts the ref cause they think he blew calls and is a homer for the other side.  

And really, all coverage for either side does is talk about how bad the other coaches’ behavior and the officiating are. (No bs actually, have you seen ESPN recently?)

Maybe it sells better tickets for the coverage to be full of shameless clowns, but most of the world just wants to sit down and watch the proverbial wrestling.  Real important for us all to remember that.  

Edited by Drew87

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7 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

If you haven't been able to figure some of this out then you need to get outside your little echo chamber. I am not going to point out the obvious for you, just change the channel once in a while. It won't kill you and you will hear things that you quite obviously have not considered. 

Translated:  "no, I can't provide any examples of experts providing conflicting guidance."

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20 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I'm on team covid is serious

How should I put this so as not to sound like a jerk? 500 thousand dead. There is no taking a side on this; there are no teams. Denying that Covid is serious isn't a POV bc the position is deracinated from any conceivable topos.

EDIT: Think of this potential debate like a football game. The team denying the seriousness of Covid would be saying that they are the better team bc the field doesn't exist.

Edited by jackwebster

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53 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

The translation is that I don't want to argue with someone whose mind is closed off.

I'm not arguing:  I'm looking for examples.  You can't provide any, because the guidance from experts is not contradictory.

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6 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

How should I put this so as not not sound like a jerk? 500,000 thousand dead. There is no taking a side on this; there are no teams. Denying that Covid is serious isn't a POV bc the position is deracinated from any conceivable topos.

Ha, good point, I agree

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