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28 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

Is Bill Gates a vaccine "expert". He doesn't even have a CPR certificate for Christ's sake.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

He doesn't have a degree in anti-trust, monopolies, fundraising, getting clean drinking water to people, or computer science either. But, doesn't he have some sort of expertise in these areas? Expertise us just a disciplinary standard of objectivity. If other experts in a g7ven field find him convincing, he's an expert.

Edited by jackwebster

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Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System data might be a reason why so many are saying no to the vaccine. 

I have taken the vaccine, but I never caught Covid 19. Given the VAERS data, I can see why those who have had the virus wouldn't want the vaccine on top of it. Here is an interesting article. 

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/facebook-posts-vaers-link-covid-vaccines-injuries-death/

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6 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System data might be a reason why so many are saying no to the vaccine. 

I have taken the vaccine, but I never caught Covid 19. Given the VAERS data, I can see why those who have had the virus wouldn't want the vaccine on top of it. Here is an interesting article. 

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/facebook-posts-vaers-link-covid-vaccines-injuries-death/

Curiouser and curiouser 

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17 hours ago, klehner said:

Still looking for *contradictions*.  So-called flip-flops are not contradictions:  that's how science works as new knowledge is gained.

So science through a process has many contradictions. 

ok!
 

 

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16 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

From the article linked

Whether a mask is needed outdoors depends on the circumstances, including local public health rules and whether you and the people you’re with are vaccinated. 

That’s a line from the author that I believe is based on the CDC guidance, not the scientists quoted.

The main point of the scientists quoted is recommending the “2 out of 3 rule” - pick 2 out of masked, distanced and outdoors (regardless of vaccination status).

Yet the CDC still recommends unvaccinated people wear a mask at a small outdoor gathering where it would likely be easy to social distance.

 

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1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System data might be a reason why so many are saying no to the vaccine. 

I have taken the vaccine, but I never caught Covid 19. Given the VAERS data, I can see why those who have had the virus wouldn't want the vaccine on top of it. Here is an interesting article. 

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/facebook-posts-vaers-link-covid-vaccines-injuries-death/

Any organization headed by RFK Jr. can be dismissed out-of-hand, sorry.  Anti-vaxxer through and through, independent of COVID (or any actual data).

This raises a couple of questions:

  1. Did you knowingly reference a source from a thoroughly discredited organization?
  2. Do you typically not check the background of the source of your opinions?
Edited by klehner

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1 hour ago, 9insoft said:

So science through a process has many contradictions. 

ok!
 

 

No, it really doesn't.  Science *is* a process, and when new data arises, science progresses.

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10 hours ago, TheOhioState said:

You are living in a communist country with no access to unbiased news.  The human abuse in China is staggering.  Christians are abused.
Pollution is rampant, which is which the Paris Accords are a joke with China in participation.

It's worthless talking to you.  

Advice:  Get out.



 

Dude, you need a punching bag or to go for a run somewhere?

Going to take a flyer on this and say you have never actually been to said “communist country”and are regurgitating things you have read and been told to think rather than taking the time to form your own opinion based on things you have actually experienced, so park the horse jabroni.  

Also, are you 90? You can take that get off my lawn energy back to your little corner of nowhere. The immense arrogance of thinking you get to choose who is allowed “in the club” is embarrassing to the point of being fascinating. Words cannot get you out of a hole, but they sure can dig you one.

10 hours ago, Le duke said:

Have they? I'd suggest that mask wearing has been patchy at best.

Why do I need to stand up for myself? I haven't been oppressed in the least. I wear a piece of cloth over my face for 8 hours a day, and I am very well compensated to do it. 

A valiant effort, you can try, but there is seemingly no using logic with this one, he is too busy yelling at kids for walking on the sidewalk in front of his house.

Edited by Drew87

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Why is it when someone brings up personal freedoms and liberties people instantly go to "what is the big deal about wearing a mask".  Stop being obtuse...you all know it isn't about the "minor inconvenience of wearing a mask"...it is about the overall need and reason and governmental control, that is the problem.  And if you think people should just sit back and do whatever the heck "their" government tells them to do, well I know Russia and China are looking for residents.  Anyway, I wear a freaking mask where I am supposed...and most people do WHERE REQUIRED.  To say otherwise is disingenuous.  (side note...weird that masks work great for the Flu but doesn't seem to do a great job on Covid)  And if local governments and health experts have taken ALL things into consideration and then loosened regulations, we are then NOT supposed to listen to those "experts"??  And if they were so wrong wouldn't Iowa, Florida, North and South Dakota, Texas, etc. be just as bad as India right now??  Oh wait, those states are no "worse off" than draconian CA....hmmm??  Suppose all those other states are going to get blamed for CA's debacle because a few people may have traveled there?!?!  SMH  Anyway, if people want to claim "science" is about adjusting as we learn going forward, please show me ANY science that says once you are fully vaccinated with a 95% effective vaccine you STILL need to wear a mask...geeze...and you then turn around and don't understand why people won't get vaccinated??  Again...SMH  I still have yet to understand that if masks are "effective" then if one or two people defied the regulations to wear a mask in a grocery store, somehow they put the 100's of other people in there, who are wearing a mask, at risk...again, I thought masks work???  And are there scientific studies/data/facts/evidence that staying 6 feet away from someone while outside, wearing a mask won't spread the virus, but if you are within 5 feet, WATCH OUT!!   Point being...again people like to throw out terms like "science" and "experts" when what is happening is that someone is giving their OPINION.  Science/Facts/Data are theories that have been proven in a repeatable controlled experiment and peer reviewed....it is NOT someone's opinion.  Because someone thinks staying 6 feet apart is a good idea, doesn't make it "science".

Anyway, onto the selfish thing and comparasins...no one is going to convince me that it is selfish because I think there were and are ways we could have done this that wouldn't have caused thousands of business to loose everything, where kids and young adults wouldn't have had so many opportunities taken away from them, etc. and yet still probably ended up where we are today with the same number of very unfortunate and deaths that were magically counted in a new way (still something no one can answer).  And if it is selfish to think my 69 year-old mother with COPD and bad kidneys should stay home and not go out because I can't fathom the thought of her catching this and dying, or anyone's mother/grandmother/father/grandfather/etc. for that matter, well, call me selfish then.

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4 hours ago, cjc007 said:

Is Bill Gates a vaccine "expert". He doesn't even have a CPR certificate for Christ's sake.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

Yes he is.  Nobody on earth has provided more vaccinations around the world than Bill Gates.  If you were putting billions of your money into public health, you would also become an expert. He is also a very smart person (beyond what most people can understand), and with decades of experience and access to the world's best scientists, he probably knows more about vaccines and public health than most PhDs.  

 

@dman115You are a good guy and I value your opinions, but could you try to break up your thoughts into multiple paragraphs?  It is really difficult to go through that post.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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2 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Yes he is.  Nobody on earth has provided more vaccinations around the world than Bill Gates.  If you were putting billions of your money into public health, you would also become an expert. He is also a very smart person (beyond what most people can understand), and with decades of experience and access to the world's best scientists, he probably knows more about vaccines and public health than most PhDs.  

 

@dman115You are a good guy and I value your opinions, but could you try to break up your thoughts into multiple paragraphs?  It is really difficult to go through that post.  

Yeah...I tend to babble and put to many thoughts into one paragraph...my bad.  I too value your opinion Billy.

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34 minutes ago, dman115 said:

Point being...again people like to throw out terms like "science" and "experts" when what is happening is that someone is giving their OPINION.  Science/Facts/Data are theories that have been proven in a repeatable controlled experiment and peer reviewed....it is NOT someone's opinion.  Because someone thinks staying 6 feet apart is a good idea, doesn't make it "science".

Nail on the head.  Science has taken on a religious authority in the eyes of many, when you are unwilling to bring a skeptical eye to anything, especially your own view of something, you run the risk of running blindly into the proverbial woods.  Similarly, it has also become weaponized as a tactic in discourse to assert that something is “science”, implying that it is unassailable and can’t be called into question.  Espoused results from the lab are the new bible.  Many people wield their scientific assertions with a vitriolic zeal not unlike members of Westboro Baptist Church on a San Francisco field trip.

What is really lost on a lot of “smart” people is interpersonal intelligence.  If you can’t communicate with respect like an adult, you obfuscate any potential merits of your opinion.  How you communicate is at least as important as what you think you are communicating.  

Lots of smart people are doing good work, but in an era where you can find a smart person on the internet espousing just about every view, it is still a reality that it is easier to just pick a side and defend your side than it is to take the time to do your own work and weigh the merits of both sides.

Nuance is becoming increasingly unwelcome and bordering on frowned upon.

Edited by Drew87

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1 hour ago, klehner said:

No, it really doesn't.  Science *is* a process, and when new data arises, science progresses.


Is new data always good data? Not always which lies the.........?

Contradiction-the statement of a position opposite to one already made.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Noson-Yanofsky-2/publication/301309239_Paradoxes_Contradictions_and_the_Limits_of_Science/links/57514a4b08ae6807faf95320/Paradoxes-Contradictions-and-the-Limits-of-Science.pdf?origin=publication_detail

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1 minute ago, 9insoft said:

I can’t help but lol at people generally being unwilling to bring scientific skepticism to...science.

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