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2 hours ago, MSU158 said:

10th or so out of 50 states is "bad"?  It obviously isn't PA, NJ or Ohio, but Missouri has really done quite well recently on the High School scene.  Keeping the top 3 or so home per year would pay very well with 1 top 20 or so National Recruit.  Here is the recruiting info on the starting roster:(Missouri High School recruits in Bold)

285- Elam  #31 overall flowrestling recruit of 2018

197- Elam #11 overall flowrestling recruit of 2019

184- Kent  #11 at 170 flowrestling and #97 Intermat recruit of 2018

174- Mocco from Wisconsin and was #20 152 of 2018

165- O'Toole from Wisconsin and was the #2 overall flowresting recruit 2020

157- Jacques #51 overall Intermat recruit of 2018

149 Mauller #45 overall flowrestling recruit of 2018

141- Hart from Ohio and #84 overall flowrestling recruit of 2017

133- Schmitt #98 recruit(went to WVU before transferring to Mizz) overall flowrestling recruit of 2016

125-Surtin #15 at 120 Intermat recruit of 2019

 

The 2 Elams and O'Toole were PREMIUM recruits.  Mauller and Jacques were right at the edge of top 50.  Mocco and Surtin were the only 2 not in the top 100 overall.

 

Colton Hawks from the same class as R Elam and O’Toole was a top 45 recruit according to flow. Could’ve been higher had he not missed his Sr season do to injury. By far the best class for Mizzou. Rated as high as 2 and and low as 4 in the nation. 

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4 hours ago, fudge_tunnel said:

I’ve been out of the loop in MO for a while now.  I still follow from afar, but I’m pretty consumed with CO wrestling now.  Only wish we had a message board like we had back in the day 

Only if we could turn back time. I posted on Mo wrestling site couple days ago, 5 views in 3 days. There was once a time when a post would have thousands of views and multiple reply’s depending on the topic. When Johnathon shut down for that period, it went downhill and most likely never come close to “the good ole days”.

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18 hours ago, MSU158 said:

10th or so out of 50 states is "bad"?  It obviously isn't PA, NJ or Ohio, but Missouri has really done quite well recently on the High School scene.  Keeping the top 3 or so home per year would pay very well with 1 top 20 or so National Recruit.  Here is the recruiting info on the starting roster:(Missouri High School recruits in Bold)

285- Elam  #31 overall flowrestling recruit of 2018

197- Elam #11 overall flowrestling recruit of 2019

184- Kent  #11 at 170 flowrestling and #97 Intermat recruit of 2018

174- Mocco from Wisconsin and was #20 152 of 2018

165- O'Toole from Wisconsin and was the #2 overall flowresting recruit 2020

157- Jacques #51 overall Intermat recruit of 2018

149 Mauller #45 overall flowrestling recruit of 2018

141- Hart from Ohio and #84 overall flowrestling recruit of 2017

133- Schmitt #98 recruit(went to WVU before transferring to Mizz) overall flowrestling recruit of 2016

125-Surtin #15 at 120 Intermat recruit of 2019

 

The 2 Elams and O'Toole were PREMIUM recruits.  Mauller and Jacques were right at the edge of top 50.  Mocco and Surtin were the only 2 not in the top 100 overall.

 

Missouri has done ok on the high school scene. Yes 10th is “bad” when compared to the top wrestling states. We are talking about the local college’s D1 lineup, not who may win a high school dual. 
  
Ohio Is one of the best wrestling states, but Ohio State even with local recruits didn’t do well at ncaas. 
  
NJ is a top wrestling state, yet Rutgers hasn’t yet cracked the top 8, even with heavy local recruiting   

What Mizzou has done with comparatively mediocre local talent (in terms of depth) is incredible 

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I used to think the winning model is using locals to build a solid base and then national recruiting to be in the trophy hunt, but Iowa definitely doesn't do that.  Maybe they no longer have a sufficient base in Iowa.  OSU is sort of in the same boat there, seems like OK HS wrestling is decaying.

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2 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

I used to think the winning model is using locals to build a solid base and then national recruiting to be in the trophy hunt, but Iowa definitely doesn't do that.  Maybe they no longer have a sufficient base in Iowa.  OSU is sort of in the same boat there, seems like OK HS wrestling is decaying.

Iowa isn't doing that ONLY because local Iowa talent has been down for quite some time.  However, Sebolt looks to be trending in the right direction.  Iowa youth is up and coming.  Plus, Iowa has Ayala and Rathjen coming in.

They will still need to hit PA, especially Young Guns, to truly stay competitive with PSU, but if the Iowa Youth makes a comeback, it will make recruiting A TON easier for them.

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3 hours ago, Housebuye said:

Missouri has done ok on the high school scene. Yes 10th is “bad” when compared to the top wrestling states. We are talking about the local college’s D1 lineup, not who may win a high school dual. 
  
Ohio Is one of the best wrestling states, but Ohio State even with local recruits didn’t do well at ncaas. 
  
NJ is a top wrestling state, yet Rutgers hasn’t yet cracked the top 8, even with heavy local recruiting   

What Mizzou has done with comparatively mediocre local talent (in terms of depth) is incredible 

To me, this sounds like all the "fans" that say teams should be top 5.  I mean there are ONLY 5 teams that can ACTUALLY be top 5.  But, fans end up naming 10-12 teams.  A top 10 state is still ENOUGH of a nucleus to compete for team trophies if you can keep the best instate talent, year in and year out.

Missouri is much like Michigan for that matter.  Keep the top instate guys at home, plus land a top 10 National recruit every year or 2 and you can compete for top 5.  Michigan and Missouri have done it and the results speak for themselves. 

Rutgers is more like Illinois.  The Illini haven't been able to lock down the state and that is why many are so down on them, but hopeful Poeta can get them there.  Rutgers has never held down all its local talent, nor has it been a national recruiting powerhouse.  I don't know that it ever can be, either.

With that said, ALL FOUR teams won't truly ever be competing with PSU or Iowa without more National talent.  But, I don't see who should rightly expect that.

As far as tOSU goes, the latest local crop doesn't REMOTELY compare to the ridiculous run they had with the 2 Stiebers,  2 Jordans(Bo and Micah),  Tomasello, Tessari and Moore(probably developed more than any based on where he was out of High School).  Still, even with them, they needed national monsters in Snyder, Martin and Pletcher to really even stay competitive with PSU.  tOSU will still be competing for top 5's, but they need another truly elite crop of local guys(a healthy Kharchla could help with this) or will need to recruit even more national monsters.

Finally, the way PSU recruits year in and year out is IMPOSSIBLE for ANYONE to match.  tOSU had a perfect storm for a 5 year cycle and now has to reload.  Iowa had a perfect storm of PA guys and transfers.  After next season, they will be challenged mightily to not fall considerably behind again.  Covid did NOT HELP.  It made PSU and the NLWC way stronger, while everywhere else pretty much constricted, with the exception of Michigan(Cliff Keen) and ASU(Sunkist) and neither of them were competitive with PSU anyway........

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1 hour ago, AnklePicker said:

The question is will Keegan O'Toole lose another college wrestling match.  I say no, what say you?

Hard to say.  He was wrestling up a weight class this year and still only took 1 loss, by decision to the eventual runner up.  I think he showed his true potential when he tech falled Valencia in the wrestle-backs.  Wrestling at his true weight and with more experience under his belt, I think it's possible, but I wouldn't bet on it.

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On 5/4/2021 at 3:19 PM, Mizzoufan01 said:

Only if we could turn back time. I posted on Mo wrestling site couple days ago, 5 views in 3 days. There was once a time when a post would have thousands of views and multiple reply’s depending on the topic. When Johnathon shut down for that period, it went downhill and most likely never come close to “the good ole days”.

That site used to be quite popular in the early 2000s. Missouri wrestling has produced a lot of talent that this board has probably forgotten about. Zach Bailey (one of Kyle dake's collegiate losses) is making some big waves on the west side of the state these days and producing some big talent. 

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This is taken from the Missouri Wrestliing website. 

 

An upward trajectory for Missouri starting in the 2010's.  The vast majority of AA's from Missouri have wrestled for Mizzou. 

 

Div I All-American From Missouri:(80)

1956-123 lbs. Vernon "Hap" Whitney, Purdue (Normandy) -3rd

1977-150 lbs. Terrell Williams Missouri (Webster Groves)-4th

1982-150 lbs. Wes Roper-Missouri (Wiiliam Chrisman)

1983-UNL lbs. Mitch Shelton Oklahoma State (Affton)-3rd

1984-150 lbs. John Sonderegger Missouri (McCluer)-4th

1987-167 lbs. Craig Martin Missouri (DeSmet)-5th

1989-275 lbs. Brian Jackson-NC State (DeSmet)-5th

1991-118 lbs. Sam Henson Missouri (Francis Howell) -5th

1991-126 lbs. Tony Purler Oklahoma State (Wentzville Holt)-3rd

1991-158 lbs. Greg Warren Missouri (Kirkwood) -7th

1992-142 lbs. Ken Liddell Missouri (McCluer North)-4th

1993-118 lbs. Sam Henson, Clemson (Francis Howell) National Champ

1993-126 lbs. Tony Purler Nebraska (Wentzville, Holt) National Champ

1993-126 lbs. Tim Harris Minnesota (Oakville) 8th

1993-158 lbs. Jim Prendergast Southwest Mo St/Missouri State (DeSmet) 6th

1993-167 lbs. Shaon Fry Missouri (Oak Grove)-2nd

1994-118 lbs. Sam Henson Clemson (Francsi Howell) National Champ

1994-126 lbs. Nick Purler Oklahoma State (Wentzville Holt) 7th

1994-167 lbs. Shaon Fry Missouri (Oak Grove)-3rd

1995-126 lbs. Tim Harris Minnesota (Oakville) 6th

1995-142 lbs. Ken Liddell Missouri (McCLuer North)-6th

1996-126 lbs. Scott Schatzman Northwestern (Parkway Central) 7th

1998-126 lbs. Scott Schatzman Northwestern (Parkway Central) 8th

1998-142 lbs. Mike Harp, Missouri (Parkway Central)-6th

2000-125 lbs. TJ Hill, Cal-St. Fullerton (Farmington) 4th

2000-141 lbs. Scott Schatzman Northwestern (Parkway Central) 4th

2001-165 lbs. Kevin Stanley Indiana (Oak Grove) 6th

2001-174 lbs. Jim Stanec Cornell (MICDS) 7th

2002-197 lbs. Scott Barker Missouri (Oakville)-6th

2003 125 lbs. Bobbe Lowe Minnesota (Oak Gorve)-8th

2003-165 lbs. Tyron Woodley Missouri (McCluer)-7th

2003-184 lbs. Scott Barker Missouri (Oakville)-2nd

2004-157 lbs. Kenny Burleson Missouri (Neosho)-7th

2005-125 lbs. Bobbe Lowe Minnesota (Oak Grove)-7th

2005-165 lbs. Tyron Woodley Missouri (McCluer)-7th

2007-184 lbs. Alex Clemson, Edinboro (Moberly)-4th

2007-184 lbs. Louis Caputo, Harvard (Blue Springs)-7th

2008-285 lbs. Ed Prendergast, Navy (DeSmet)-3rd

2009-157 lbs. Michael Chandler, Missouri (Northwest) -5th

2009-184 lbs. Louis Caputo, Harvard (Blue Springs)-8th

2009-285 lbs. Mark Ellis, Missouri (Raymore-Peculiar) National Champion

2010-141 lbs. Zach Bailey, Oklahoma (Oak Park) -4th

2010-285 lbs. Mark Ellis, Missouri (Raymore-Peculiar)-6th

2011-125 lbs. Ryan Mango Stanford (Whitfield)-6th

2011-141 lbs. Zack Bailey, Oklahoma (Oak Park)-7th

2011-285 lbs. Dom Bradley, Missouri (Blue Springs)-3rd

2012-125 lbs. Ryan Mango, Stanford (Whitfield)-5th

2012-149 lbs. Nick Lester, Oklahoma (Eureka)-8th

2013-125 lbs. Alan Waters, Missouri (Park Hill)-4th

2013-133 lbs. Cody Brewer, Oklahoma (Oak Park)-7th

2013-149 lbs. Drake Houdashelt, Missouri (Ft. Zumwalt West)-6th

2013-285 lbs. Dom Bradley, Missouri (Blue Springs)-4th

2014-133 lbs. Cody Brewer, Oklahoma (Oak Park)-8th

2014-149 lbs. Drake Houdashelt, Missouri (Ft. Zumwalt West)-5th

2014-197 lbs. J’Den Cox, Missouri (Hickman)-National Champion

2015-125 lbs. Alan Waters, Missouri (Park Hill)-3rd

2015-133 lbs. Cody Brewer, Oklahoma (Oak Park)-National Champion

2015-149 lbs. Drake Houdashelt, Missouri (Ft. Zumwalt West)-National Champion

2015-184 lbs. Blake Stauffer, Arizona State (Neosho)-4th

2015-197 lbs. J’Den Cox, Missouri (Hickman)-5th

2016-133 lbs. Cody Brewer, Oklahoma (Oak Park)-3rd

2016-165 lbs. Daniel Lewis, Missouri (Blue Springs)-4th

2016-197 lbs. J’Den Cox, Missouri (Hickman)-National Champion

2017-141 lbs. Jaydin Eierman, Missouri(Father Tolten)-5th

2017-165 lbs. Daniel Lewis, Missouri (Blue Springs)-6th

2017-197 lbs. J’Den Cox, Missouri (Hickman)-National Champion

2018-141 lbs. Jaydin Eierman, Missouri(Father Tolten)-4th

2018-149 lbs. Grant Leeth, Missouri(Kearney)-6th

2018-174 lbs. Daniel Lewis, Missouri (Blue Springs)-4th

2019-133 lbs. John Erneste, Missouri (Pakr Hill)-6th

2019-141 lbs. Jaydin Eierman, Missouri(Father Tolten)-3rd

2019-149 lbs. Brock Mauller, Missouri (Father Tolten)-6th

2019-174 lbs. Daniel Lewis, Missouri (Blue Springs)-4th

2020-149 lbs. Brock Mauller, Missouri(Father Totlen)- 1st Team All-American

2020-285 lbs. Demetrius Thomas, Pittsburgh(McCluer)- 1st Team All-American

2020-157 lbs. Jarrett Jacques, Missouri(Father Totlen)- Honorable Mention All-American

2021- 141 lbs. Jaydin Eierman, Iowa (Father Tolten) - 2nd

2021- 149 lbs. Brock Mauller, Missouri (Father Totlen) -5th

2021- 184 lbs. Brit Wilson, Northern Illinois (Mexico) -6th

2021- 197 lbs. Rocky Elam, Missouri (Staley) - 5th

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3 hours ago, Perry said:

That site used to be quite popular in the early 2000s. Missouri wrestling has produced a lot of talent that this board has probably forgotten about. Zach Bailey (one of Kyle dake's collegiate losses) is making some big waves on the west side of the state these days and producing some big talent. 

Zach is coaching in Mo? Didn’t know that. Like fudge I keep up from afar, in Texas. I knew Dustin Brewer was at Belton now Liberty and they are the top 4A team. 

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3 hours ago, Mizzoufan01 said:

Zach is coaching in Mo? Didn’t know that. Like fudge I keep up from afar, in Texas. I knew Dustin Brewer was at Belton now Liberty and they are the top 4A team. 

Little league from my understanding. Sounds like he is helping liberty high school see some of their recent success. They are looking like the oak park of the early/mid 2000s these days. Interestingly enough, it sounds like mayabb has left the US Greco-Roman team and is returning to oak park! Pretty wild change of events.

Edited by Perry

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1 hour ago, Perry said:

Little league from my understanding. Sounds like he is helping liberty high school see some of their recent success. They are looking like the oak park of the early/mid 2000s these days. Interestingly enough, it sounds like mayabb has left the US Greco-Roman team and is returning to oak park! Pretty wild change of events.

I did happen to catch that a couple days ago. Wonder why the change. Maybe we could see OP become a force again. Will be interesting how it shakes out.

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On 5/5/2021 at 10:05 PM, Perry said:

Little league from my understanding. Sounds like he is helping liberty high school see some of their recent success. They are looking like the oak park of the early/mid 2000s these days. Interestingly enough, it sounds like mayabb has left the US Greco-Roman team and is returning to oak park! Pretty wild change of events.

Victory is now feeding Liberty. Liberty has the same formula that those great Oak Park teams had. They have a great base of kids and add a couple hammers from Kansas and the surrounding areas of KC to create a juggernaut. They have a great program going there. It was really impressive to watch this year and it doesn't look like it will be letting up anytime soon.

Edited by Warren_Haynes

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1 hour ago, Warren_Haynes said:

Liberty has the same formula that those great Oak Park teams had. They have a great base of kids and add a couple hammers from Kansas and the surrounding areas of KC to create a juggernaut. They have a great program going there. 

You mean recruit players from other schools, which is illegal in Missouri.  They've had some great "move ins".

Edited by KCMO2

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3 hours ago, KCMO2 said:

You mean recruit players from other schools, which is illegal in Missouri.  They've had some great "move ins".

Let’s not beat around the bush here. There have been many of kids “move” to go to the high school they wanted to wrestle at. However it happens, it happens. Cauley bros to FZW, Wilbourns and Josh Bennett to FHC, Cain Salas and Micheal Pixley. Shoot current Mizzou wrestler Jacques was a state champ at three different Mo high schools. I’m not educated enough on CBC to add their guys to the list, not sure how it works for them zoning wise or if they are a public or private school. It’s just something that’s become the norm in a sense. Whitfield, I’m pretty sure is a private school who’s made a living off getting kids that live in the boundaries of other high school programs. For whatever reason, seems FHC losses more wrestlers than the other schools. I’m not trying to start trouble, but there is a decent size list of lost wrestlers over the last several years. 

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13 hours ago, Mizzoufan01 said:

Let’s not beat around the bush here. There have been many of kids “move” to go to the high school they wanted to wrestle at. However it happens, it happens. Cauley bros to FZW, Wilbourns and Josh Bennett to FHC, Cain Salas and Micheal Pixley. Shoot current Mizzou wrestler Jacques was a state champ at three different Mo high schools. I’m not educated enough on CBC to add their guys to the list, not sure how it works for them zoning wise or if they are a public or private school. It’s just something that’s become the norm in a sense. Whitfield, I’m pretty sure is a private school who’s made a living off getting kids that live in the boundaries of other high school programs. For whatever reason, seems FHC losses more wrestlers than the other schools. I’m not trying to start trouble, but there is a decent size list of lost wrestlers over the last several years. 

Jacques started at Kirksville, where his dad was a teacher. Then his dad became an administrator at Owensville, so his son went with the family. Then his dad became an administrator at a school around Columbia so they enrolled him at Tolton. That is far from recruiting. 

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7 hours ago, Warren_Haynes said:

Jacques started at Kirksville, where his dad was a teacher. Then his dad became an administrator at Owensville, so his son went with the family. Then his dad became an administrator at a school around Columbia so they enrolled him at Tolton. That is far from recruiting. 

I wasn’t implying anything. Jacques aside, recruiting happens. I’m sure you’ve seen it around Warren. You’ve held many positions involving Mo wrestling, I’m sure we all have stories. It just seems to be not as big of a deal as it once was. 

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On 5/6/2021 at 6:51 PM, Mizzoufan01 said:

Let’s not beat around the bush here. There have been many of kids “move” to go to the high school they wanted to wrestle at. However it happens, it happens. Cauley bros to FZW, Wilbourns and Josh Bennett to FHC, Cain Salas and Micheal Pixley. Shoot current Mizzou wrestler Jacques was a state champ at three different Mo high schools. I’m not educated enough on CBC to add their guys to the list, not sure how it works for them zoning wise or if they are a public or private school. It’s just something that’s become the norm in a sense. Whitfield, I’m pretty sure is a private school who’s made a living off getting kids that live in the boundaries of other high school programs. For whatever reason, seems FHC losses more wrestlers than the other schools. I’m not trying to start trouble, but there is a decent size list of lost wrestlers over the last several years. 

CBC is a private school and absolutely recruits. A good number of their recent studs are actually from Illinois just over the river. They also pull a good number from the st Charles area which as you mentioned, includes Howell central. Whitfield also recruits a lot but their horsepower is quite a bit less though they have had a lot of success in the smaller classes of competition. 

Edited by Perry

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4 hours ago, Perry said:

CBC is a private school and absolutely recruits. A good number of their recent studs are actually from Illinois just over the river. They also pull a good number from the st Charles area which as you mentioned, includes Howell central. Whitfield also recruits a lot but their horsepower is quite a bit less though they have had a lot of success in the smaller classes of competition. 

I knew Vinny Zerban and DJ Shannon where from Illinois. I’m not mad either more power to them. Have to do what you need to do in order to get yourself where you want to be. 

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On 5/7/2021 at 8:02 PM, Perry said:

CBC is a private school and absolutely recruits. A good number of their recent studs are actually from Illinois just over the river. They also pull a good number from the st Charles area which as you mentioned, includes Howell central. Whitfield also recruits a lot but their horsepower is quite a bit less though they have had a lot of success in the smaller classes of competition. 

Didn’t Whitfield make the jump from class 1 to class 3 this year, and completely dominate the perennial powerhouse Neosho at state?

And regarding OP recruiting back in the day - the really didn’t have to.  Kids WANTED to go there.  If a family was moving to the KC area and their son was a top quality wrestler, and it made sense geographically to live in Gladstone, why WOULDN’T they go to OP?  They were a national top 10 team, you would get exceptional coaching, they travel to some of the toughest tournaments in the country, and college coaches were well aware of the talent at that program.  

Liberty is building a similar formula now.  We’ve considered moving back to KC for several reasons, and my son, who is an 8th grader, said the only school he’d want to go to is Liberty.  If we did that, would they be accused of recruiting a kid from out of state?  

I wish Mayabb nothing but success back at OP.  We ran into him a number of times out here, and he still is a ball of energy.  it’s just going to make wrestling in the Northland that much more competitive

And speaking of public high school recruiting - CO has open enrollment.  You should see the frantic, and legal, campaign to snatch up 8th graders right now.  It’s bananas
 

 

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On 5/3/2021 at 1:35 PM, Missourimatman said:

what exactly has he done to grow the sport in the state?

I believe the Purlers got that ball rolling.

For one, he probably saved Missouri wrestling at the D1 level. As bad as the program was prior to him getting there, Title IX, and the move to the SEC, the program most likely would have been dropped long ago. The byproduct would have been a reduction and deterioration of youth and high school wrestling numbers and talent. Name a state with elite pre-college talent and a non-succesful D1 program. 

Second, he created one of the most dynamic summmer camps that was a competition/team camp. This gave kids and coaches a chance to learn the eveolvoing techniques and improved wrestling skills. These camps provided opportunity for off season wrestling that kids would not have attended otherwise. You. Basically had Iowa or OSU before that and not every kid in the state had good proximity to that. 

He began to have pre-season coaching clinics. He brought high school coaches in and taught technique. At the time technique was lacking in the state. There was not a huge pool of experienced coaches in the state (outside if KC and STL). Many coaches got a direction and  were able to expand their wrestling knowledge. This gets passed to the kids.

He talked to and listened to coaches. A few of us old timers can remember prior to Smith nobody could travel outside the state 100 miles, the match number per year was all, kids couldn't wresltnf in tournaments with excessive numbers of teams, and the off-season rules were rivaled only by Michigan. The officating was also not very good in terms of interpretation. You couldn't be behind a guy for more than five seconds or you would get stalled out if a match. As a result nobody had to get very good in bottom. mOnkids got tortured on the mat. Smith worked with officials and he also worked with MSHSA to help improve those areas. Especially, with traveling, match, numbers, and off-season. While it did take the HS coaches association to get those changes made it never would have happened had Smith not been there with support and a sting college program. 

Those are just a few things that he has been instrumental in helping to get changed. 

As for youth. Outlet was not the first. Randy Smith was ahead of everyone back when he fed Oak Park with Mahab. Since then there have been a lot of great programs. Including Purler. The only argument I would make is that is counts are not complete accurate. While he has MANY kids that are primarily this that he helped develop, he also counts kids that he worked with in a very limited basis that trained with other coaches. That is not saying he is not good and has not produced great wrestlers. I just know that If a kid trained with him for just a few weeks or a few days a week for a month or two he would count them as "Purler trained".  I don't know Randy Smith all that well but I dobknow he had the first elite youth program. His kids tortured everyone back in the 90's. 

Edited by scramble

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