ASU's lightweight logjam, how do they handle it?

[RegularStalling 52]

While watching Junior Nationals this past weekend, I realized ASU is going to need to do some serious lineup juggling the next few seasons. Vasquez dropping to 61 kg (134 lbs) was a big head scratcher for me.

Eligibility Breakdown for 2022 based upon most recent competition weight:

125: Courtney RS JR, Figueroa FR, Dibert FR

133: McGee RS JR, Belton RS FR

133/141: Chlebove RS FR, Vasquez, FR

141/149: Parco RS FR

My question is, how do they navigate this the next few years? On paper it seems that the simplest solution would be for Figs to take a gap year, but I doubt he'd want to do that, and even if he was willing I doubt ASU would risk breaking his NLI. 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by RegularStalling

[TobusRex 2,108]

I'd recommend that Zeke look at how Oklahoma State handles it, and do the opposite. 

[Idaho 1,325]

10 minutes ago, RegularStalling said:

While watching Junior Nationals this past weekend, I realized ASU is going to need to do some serious lineup juggling the next few seasons. Vasquez dropping to 61 kg (134 lbs) was a big head scratcher for me.

Eligibility Breakdown for 2022 based upon most recent competition weight:

125: Courtney RS JR, Figueroa FR, Dibert FR

133: McGee RS JR, Belton RS FR

133/141: Chlebove RS FR, Vasquez, FR

141/149: Parco RS FR

My question is, how do they navigate this the next few years? On paper it seems that the simplest solution would be for Figs to take a gap year, but I doubt he'd want to do that, and even if he was willing I doubt ASU would risk breaking his NLI. 

 

Courtney will wrestle and Figs will redshirt 

McGee will start over Belton because he is better

Chlebove will start even if he gets teched by Vasquez

Parco will be the starter at 149

[Bronco 231]

I don't see anything remotely like a "logjam" here

A.  Courtney and McGee will both be RS Seniors next season (they were both RS JR's last season).  Chlebove will be a RS Sophomore - so will Belton and so will Parco.

B. The other two weight classes will work themselves out later - as per usual on dozens and dozens and dozens of teams.

C. My only question is the same question I asked earlier.  That being will Nick Suriano be a member of the ASU wrestling team next season?  Throw him into the mix and then you will have a mini-logjam so to speak.  But even if he is on the ASU team next season it will all get sorted out.

[OBXWrestler 108]

Bronco, don’t forget last year didn’t count eligibility wise. So, a RS Jr last year is a RS Jr again next season. 

[lu1979 558]

2 hours ago, Bronco said:

I don't see anything remotely like a "logjam" here

A.  Courtney and McGee will both be RS Seniors next season (they were both RS JR's last season).  Chlebove will be a RS Sophomore - so will Belton and so will Parco.

B. The other two weight classes will work themselves out later - as per usual on dozens and dozens and dozens of teams.

C. My only question is the same question I asked earlier.  That being will Nick Suriano be a member of the ASU wrestling team next season?  Throw him into the mix and then you will have a mini-logjam so to speak.  But even if he is on the ASU team next season it will all get sorted out.

125 - Courtney has 2 years left so if Richie Figs Redshirts next year they have to fight it out in the 2023 season - Dibert is odd man out

133 - McGee also has 2 years left and I would be surprised if Belton could unseat him. If Suriano decides to join ASU they are both on the bench for next year.  In 2023 I expect the Courtney/RF loser would move up to challenge for the 133 spot. 

141 - If Parco decides to drop I expect he wins the spot.  If Parco stays at 149 whoever is left fights it out.  That may include McGee if Suriano signs up.

[gobraves101905 138]

It’s a great problem to have. 

[RegularStalling 52]

29 minutes ago, gobraves101905 said:

It’s a great problem to have. 

Definitely. Crazy to think a year and half ago I thought they had a depth problem. 

[ShakaAloha 418]

1 hour ago, lu1979 said:

125 - Courtney has 2 years left so if Richie Figs Redshirts next year they have to fight it out in the 2023 season - Dibert is odd man out

133 - McGee also has 2 years left and I would be surprised if Belton could unseat him. If Suriano decides to join ASU they are both on the bench for next year.  In 2023 I expect the Courtney/RF loser would move up to challenge for the 133 spot. 

141 - If Parco decides to drop I expect he wins the spot.  If Parco stays at 149 whoever is left fights it out.  That may include McGee if Suriano signs up.

I agree that Figs probably redshirts next year, but he didn't come to ASU to spend one of his 4 years of eligibility on the bench.  I'd imagine that the plan is for Courtney to move up to 133 (or not use extra year of eligibility) in 2022-23.

[RegularStalling 52]

39 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

I agree that Figs probably redshirts next year, but he didn't come to ASU to spend one of his 4 years of eligibility on the bench.  I'd imagine that the plan is for Courtney to move up to 133 (or not use extra year of eligibility) in 2022-23.

My thoughts exactly. I think either McGee or Courtney will be shown the door following next season. No way they jeopardize losing Richie for one more year of one of those two.  

[Housebuye 2,419]

Courtney has gotten bigger and the pull to 125 was already tough. I doubt we see him at 125 next season. 
  
I’m not sure if that means McGee at 141 

[flyingcement 762]

3 hours ago, Housebuye said:

Courtney has gotten bigger and the pull to 125 was already tough. I doubt we see him at 125 next season. 
  
I’m not sure if that means McGee at 141 

If that happened do you think we would see Figueroa wrestle as a true freshman.  He is a stud so I would think he could handle it

[flyingcement 762]

Doubt this will happen, but if weights moved around a little it feels like this would be the lineup to find a place for the best wrestlers (even if it was one that did not maximize success for the team or for each individual wrestler:

125: Figueroa

133: Courtney

141: McGee

149: Parco

157: Vasquez

165: Teemer

174: Valencia

184: Munoz

197: Norfleet

285: Schultz

[RegularStalling 52]

1 hour ago, flyingcement said:

Doubt this will happen, but if weights moved around a little it feels like this would be the lineup to find a place for the best wrestlers (even if it was one that did not maximize success for the team or for each individual wrestler:

125: Figueroa

133: Courtney

141: McGee

149: Parco

157: Vasquez

165: Teemer

174: Valencia

184: Munoz

197: Norfleet

285: Schultz

I think this would have been a viable solution prior to Vasquez wrestling 134 lbs last weekend. With that being the case, seems unlikely Vasquez fills out 157 any time soon. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by RegularStalling

[ShakaAloha 418]

3 hours ago, RegularStalling said:

I think this would have been a viable solution prior to Vasquez wrestling 134 lbs last weekend. With that being the case, seems unlikely Vasquez fills out 157 any time soon. 

Agreed, I think their 2021-22 lineup looks more like this:

125: Courtney (Figs redshirts)
133: McGee (Vasquez as backup)
141: Parco or Chlebove or Vasquez
149: Parco or Chlebove
157: Teemer
165: A. Valencia
174: Munoz
184: Belshay (if he doesn't transfer) or Coleman
197: Norfleet
285: Schultz

[Housebuye 2,419]

6 hours ago, flyingcement said:

If that happened do you think we would see Figueroa wrestle as a true freshman.  He is a stud so I would think he could handle it

I would assume so. I hope so. 

[Housebuye 2,419]

1 hour ago, ShakaAloha said:

Agreed, I think their 2021-22 lineup looks more like this:

125: Courtney (Figs redshirts)
133: McGee (Vasquez as backup)
141: Parco or Chlebove or Vasquez
149: Parco or Chlebove
157: Teemer
165: A. Valencia
174: Munoz
184: Belshay (if he doesn't transfer) or Coleman
197: Norfleet
285: Schultz

Seems kinda crazy to leave Figs on the bench and end up with Chlebove instead. Chlebove isn’t going to score any points. 
  
174 is a throwaway. If ASU has a hole, they should try to make it there. That weight is ridiculous 

[ShakaAloha 418]

49 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

Seems kinda crazy to leave Figs on the bench and end up with Chlebove instead. Chlebove isn’t going to score any points. 
  
174 is a throwaway. If ASU has a hole, they should try to make it there. That weight is ridiculous 

So you think Zeke will let Figs go at 125 right away?  Under this scenario, ASU would have to bump both Courtney and McGee up to 133 and 141 respectively.  

Do you think that Munoz is better at 184 vs. 174?  Also, how does bumping Munoz up to 184 affect Cael Valencia?

[Housebuye 2,419]

18 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

So you think Zeke will let Figs go at 125 right away?  Under this scenario, ASU would have to bump both Courtney and McGee up to 133 and 141 respectively.  

Do you think that Munoz is better at 184 vs. 174?  Also, how does bumping Munoz up to 184 affect Cael Valencia?

I think Courtney has trouble making 125, so he wants to bump anyways. So it really is deciding on these 2 things:

1. Who goes 125? Figs or someone who wont qualify?

2. Should Courtney and McGee wrestle off at 133, or should the bigger guy move up?

  Trey should wrestle wherever he is best. I’m just saying realistically he is not sneaking in the podium at 174. There are like 6 guys there that are hammers. It’s a waste, because I think he could AA in a weaker weight. 
  
Cael Valencia has a ways to go before making an impact. I don’t think he starts for a couple years

[ShakaAloha 418]

10 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

I think Courtney has trouble making 125, so he wants to bump anyways. So it really is deciding on these 2 things:

1. Who goes 125? Figs or someone who wont qualify?

2. Should Courtney and McGee wrestle off at 133, or should the bigger guy move up?

  Trey should wrestle wherever he is best. I’m just saying realistically he is not sneaking in the podium at 174. There are like 6 guys there that are hammers. It’s a waste, because I think he could AA in a weaker weight. 
  
Cael Valencia has a ways to go before making an impact. I don’t think he starts for a couple years

Thanks for your responses.

Can McGee still make 125?  I remember that he was 125 at ODU before he transferred to ASU.  If not, how effective will McGee be at 141?  

Does McGee and Courtney potentially wrestling off at 133 mean Suriano is not wrestling for ASU, as once rumored?

Do you think Trey at 184 and a backup-type guy at 174 is better for the team than Trey at 174 and Belshay at 184?  Assuming they bump Trey up, does that mean Cael will wrestle at 174 when he debuts as a RS-Freshman?

[gobraves101905 138]

8 hours ago, flyingcement said:

Doubt this will happen, but if weights moved around a little it feels like this would be the lineup to find a place for the best wrestlers (even if it was one that did not maximize success for the team or for each individual wrestler:

125: Figueroa

133: Courtney

141: McGee

149: Parco

157: Vasquez

165: Teemer

174: Valencia

184: Munoz

197: Norfleet

285: Schultz

Maybe in 2022-23. 

[Housebuye 2,419]

16 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

Thanks for your responses.

Can McGee still make 125?  I remember that he was 125 at ODU before he transferred to ASU.  If not, how effective will McGee be at 141?  

Does McGee and Courtney potentially wrestling off at 133 mean Suriano is not wrestling for ASU, as once rumored?

Do you think Trey at 184 and a backup-type guy at 174 is better for the team than Trey at 174 and Belshay at 184?  Assuming they bump Trey up, does that mean Cael will wrestle at 174 when he debuts as a RS-Freshman?

I have no idea if McGee could make 125. I would guess not, but that’s a guess. I think for 141 it depends who else is there. Nick Lee and Yianni may both move up to 149. 

I think Trey should wrestle where he is best. I’m just saying that 174 is stacked on paper and he isn’t going to AA there unless something crazy happens. The thing is, crazy things happen. 
 
I can’t tell how good Cael is. He started late and become very good very fast, but it’s hard to tell what his ceiling is. He is going about it completely differently than his brothers. It reminds me of the Nelson Brands situation - he clearly has the genetics to do very well and likely the work ethic, but starting late in the spot combined with the million other variables at play I just have no idea if he will ever be a starter or eventually be a title contender 

[gobraves101905 138]

7 hours ago, Housebuye said:

I have no idea if McGee could make 125. I would guess not, but that’s a guess. I think for 141 it depends who else is there. Nick Lee and Yianni may both move up to 149. 

I think Trey should wrestle where he is best. I’m just saying that 174 is stacked on paper and he isn’t going to AA there unless something crazy happens. The thing is, crazy things happen. 
 
I can’t tell how good Cael is. He started late and become very good very fast, but it’s hard to tell what his ceiling is. He is going about it completely differently than his brothers. It reminds me of the Nelson Brands situation - he clearly has the genetics to do very well and likely the work ethic, but starting late in the spot combined with the million other variables at play I just have no idea if he will ever be a starter or eventually be a title contender 

I’ve never seen you more off. Valencia will most definitely be a starter after he takes a red shirt. And Munoz, AA potential at whatever weight he goes. 

[ShakaAloha 418]

2 hours ago, gobraves101905 said:

I’ve never seen you more off. Valencia will most definitely be a starter after he takes a red shirt. And Munoz, AA potential at whatever weight he goes. 

Agreed about Cael Valencia.  Like Figs, he didn't come to ASU to spend one of his 4 years of eligibility on the bench.  What weight do you see Cael and Trey at in 2022-23?

[gobraves101905 138]

17 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

Agreed about Cael Valencia.  Like Figs, he didn't come to ASU to spend one of his 4 years of eligibility on the bench.  What weight do you see Cael and Trey at in 2022-23?

Cael at 174. Trey at 184. Trey loves the weights. I can see him putting on a lot of good weight. 
 

I see Teemer at 165. Figs at 125. 133-157 will be interesting to see how it sorts out in 2022-23. I don’t see Vasquez at 157.