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JohnnyThompsonnum1

Taylor and the Gorriaran Award

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At the moment it happened, and to this day I "know" Gardner did not defeat Karelin. He won the coin flip regarding who locks first, who has to score, and Karelin unlocked trying to improve position (not in order to avoid being scored on). Arbitrary (stupid) rule was the only one to ever defeat Karelin. Glad Rulon was awarded a Gold, but I don't consider it won on the mat. I wouldn't use it as an example of ultimate achievement.

 

I do. I concur that it was a 1/1,000,000 moment, but Gardner put himself in a position and within the rules of the game executed a plan that won him the match. At the end of the day, he got his arm raised in victory and more so the recognition he got afterwards was the ultimate achievement. People still talk about the match to this day...

Its a sad example when a new (at the time) arbitrary set of rules created the opportunity for Rulon to sag, defend, not try to score is a "shining" example for our sport in the media for decades. Again, not dissing those governed by the rules. Happy for Rulon. But it's part of why I don't follow International much any more, perhaps the moment I began to be disinterested.

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Not in of itself. If you win the way Taylor did the first time or the way Rob Rohn did, that is impressive. If you win by pinning two unknowns in the wrestle backs.....not a big deal.

 

Forget about the title, I think coming in 2nd or 3rd is more impressive. I think teching someone at the NCAA level is more impressive than a pin.

Reward someone who isn't good enough to score the fall inspite of complete dominance? There is a reason the fall scores more team points. It is the ultimate goal.

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Well it does pose another interesting question. How many Gorriarian award winners finished 1st or 2nd? I too concur that is a wrestleback award, but there have been a few. Gable won it twice without being in the consolations, Chris Taylor (another weird fact here is that there are three Taylor's to win the award, Chris, Hudson and David.) Rob Rohn won it the year he won the NCAA title. Sure there are more.

 

Iowa State's Gorriaran winners (8)

1966 - Tom Peckham (1st), 3 falls

1969 - Dan Gable (1st), 5 falls

1970 - Dan Gable (2nd), 5 falls

1973 - Chris Taylor (1st), 5 falls

1977 - Johnnie Jones (4th), 3 falls (1 in conso)

1985 - Darryl Peterson (5th), 4 falls (4 in conso)

1988 - Eric Voelker (3rd), 3 falls (1 in conso)

1991 - Matt Johnson (2nd), 3 falls

 

*5 finalists

*2 guys who only had 1 fall in consos

*1 guy who lost his first match, got 3 falls, lost again, then WBF for 5th

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Only two wrestlers in the history of the NCAA's have won it twice, Dan Gable of Iowa State and Gary Albright of Nebraska. Taylor will be the only person, if he wins it again next year to win the award three times in his career. That's history, that's exciting and that's worth mentioning and talking about. Excuse me for getting excited about something other than 4 NCAA titles or going undefeated in a career.

Johnny,

 

Both Ted Ellis and Dan Hodge were 2x Gorrarian Award winners.

 

Also, Gable and Owings both pinned all their other opponents at the 1970 NCAAs. Owings actually

pinned his faster, but Gable won the award because he had a pigtail match, which Owings didn't.

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We Rutgers fans fill the gym for every home match and watch the away ones online. We don't see the team winning conference titles or placing individually or as a team at the national tournament. I would say we make an excellent wrestling version of "Cubs fans". We complain about the direction of the team, but will always come back for more (just like Cub fans).

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Way to late in the game now, I am sure, but if we are going to give an award of this nature, and recognize dominance, perhaps the Gorrarian award should only be awarded to pins secured in the championship brackets or in the AA rounds. I doubt that would have provided any extra reason for DT, Dake or anyone else to get after it for the pin, but it would take away the argument that falls were only garnered against much lesser opponents.

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Only two wrestlers in the history of the NCAA's have won it twice, Dan Gable of Iowa State and Gary Albright of Nebraska. Taylor will be the only person, if he wins it again next year to win the award three times in his career. That's history, that's exciting and that's worth mentioning and talking about. Excuse me for getting excited about something other than 4 NCAA titles or going undefeated in a career.

Johnny,

 

Both Ted Ellis and Dan Hodge were 2x Gorrarian Award winners.

 

Also, Gable and Owings both pinned all their other opponents at the 1970 NCAAs. Owings actually

pinned his faster, but Gable won the award because he had a pigtail match, which Owings didn't.

There wasn't a Gorriaran Award prior to 1961.

I haven't looked it up but I'd not be surprised if Hodge wouldn't have won it three times (if it existed). In three tournaments only two individual matches didn't end in fall.

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So let's get this straight: Jersey Boy would rather see someone get to the finals instead of win the Gorriaran since, you know, it's a "wrestleback award" (Taylor did both at the same time, while coincidentally not in wrestlebacks), would rather see someone undefeated (did that, too), would rather see someone going for a multiple NC situation (yep), would rather see someone tech an opponent (yup) and thinks the award is a "metaphor for dominance" (ummm...or the definition thereof). What the heck is the argument again???

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That argument IMO doesn't hold much weight anyway. Why would we distinguish between championship bracket pin and consi bracket pins? We're talking about the NCAA Division 1 championships, not some random open tournament where the quality of competition is in question.

 

Why change the award from including anyone competing & pinning at the NCAA's to something that will likely only go to a champ or runner up? A pin is a pin IMO.

 

I think it is very impressive for Taylor to have won 2 and it will be extremely impressive for him to win 3 since no one else has ever been able to accomplish this. Not even Cael or Gable.

 

I was looking at the records for the Gorriarian which led me to think of Wade Schalles, according to Wikipedia (which might not be the best source): "Schalles is the only Division I wrestler to pin over 100 opponents, an NCAA record. ...

During Schalles' competitive days, Sports Illustrated said he was "the most exciting wrestler to ever walk onto a wrestling mat." Amateur Wrestling News selected him as the best American middleweight of the 20th Century. Dan Gable called him, "the greatest pinner he's ever seen!" Currently he is in the Guinness Book of World Records for having the most wins and pins of anyone who has ever competed. Schalles has won 15 national championships and been an All-American in five different combative disciplines: Judo, Sombo, Freestyle, Folkstyle and Greco-Roman wrestling."

 

But he never even win 1 Gorriarian? Or did he? Hmm...

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Only two wrestlers in the history of the NCAA's have won it twice, Dan Gable of Iowa State and Gary Albright of Nebraska. Taylor will be the only person, if he wins it again next year to win the award three times in his career. That's history, that's exciting and that's worth mentioning and talking about. Excuse me for getting excited about something other than 4 NCAA titles or going undefeated in a career.

Johnny,

 

Both Ted Ellis and Dan Hodge were 2x Gorrarian Award winners.

 

Also, Gable and Owings both pinned all their other opponents at the 1970 NCAAs. Owings actually

pinned his faster, but Gable won the award because he had a pigtail match, which Owings didn't.

There wasn't a Gorriaran Award prior to 1961.

I haven't looked it up but I'd not be surprised if Hodge wouldn't have won it three times (if it existed). In three tournaments only two individual matches didn't end in fall.

Technically you're correct, however, Boomer compiled a list a couple of years ago that went

back to 1949. He lists Eddie Eichelberger as the unofficial winner in 1955, which was Hodge's

first year wrestling varsity at Oklahoma (i.e., his sophomore year).

 

Gorriaran Award Winners, 1949-2010

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Technically you're correct, however, Boomer compiled a list a couple of years ago that went

back to 1949. He lists Eddie Eichelberger as the unofficial winner in 1955, which was Hodge's

first year wrestling varsity at Oklahoma (i.e., his sophomore year).

 

Gorriaran Award Winners, 1949-2010

Good to know. Thanks. And it highlights another great that had the misfortune to be born (decades?) before video was any more than an unusual, very expensive hobby outside of Hollywood.

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All Taylor's falls and matches have been in the Championship round.

Both years he won the Gorriarian Award, he's pinned 2 seeded wrestlers. Only 1 team pinned more than Taylor did this year. Both Minnesota and Penn State (not counting Taylor) had 6 falls.

Falls

Minnesota 6 [Dardanes, Ness, and Nelson in championship] [Thorn 3 falls on the way to 7th]

Penn State 6 [Not counting Taylor]

Taylor 4

Iowa State 4

OR State 4

Ok State 4

Iowa 4

UNI 3

Citadel 3 [Delaney 3 falls on the way to 7th, including the #4 seed.]

All falls are remarkable since this is the NCAA Tournament.

Remember, Ed Ruth won the Gorriarian in 2011.

Johnny is correct that this is History in the making.

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We Rutgers fans fill the gym for every home match and watch the away ones online. We don't see the team winning conference titles or placing individually or as a team at the national tournament. I would say we make an excellent wrestling version of "Cubs fans". We complain about the direction of the team, but will always come back for more (just like Cub fans).

 

I wish you were the norm, rather than the exception. Very cool though. I have family in New Jersey, I ever get around to getting a good job where I can visit them, I'll come out during the season and see a meet for myself.

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Only two wrestlers in the history of the NCAA's have won it twice, Dan Gable of Iowa State and Gary Albright of Nebraska. Taylor will be the only person, if he wins it again next year to win the award three times in his career. That's history, that's exciting and that's worth mentioning and talking about. Excuse me for getting excited about something other than 4 NCAA titles or going undefeated in a career.

Johnny,

 

Both Ted Ellis and Dan Hodge were 2x Gorrarian Award winners.

 

Also, Gable and Owings both pinned all their other opponents at the 1970 NCAAs. Owings actually

pinned his faster, but Gable won the award because he had a pigtail match, which Owings didn't.

Wow, I did not realize Gable and Owings pinned all their opponents at the 1970 NCAAs. Did Owings pin Gable first, or was it the other way around? Why did they let this match continue to its 13-11 final score?

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All Taylor's falls and matches have been in the Championship round.

Both years he won the Gorriarian Award, he's pinned 2 seeded wrestlers. Only 1 team pinned more than Taylor did this year. Both Minnesota and Penn State (not counting Taylor) had 6 falls.

Falls

Minnesota 6 [Dardanes, Ness, and Nelson in championship] [Thorn 3 falls on the way to 7th]

Penn State 6 [Not counting Taylor]

Taylor 4

Iowa State 4

OR State 4

Ok State 4

Iowa 4

UNI 3

Citadel 3 [Delaney 3 falls on the way to 7th, including the #4 seed.]

All falls are remarkable since this is the NCAA Tournament.

Remember, Ed Ruth won the Gorriarian in 2011.

Johnny is correct that this is History in the making.

 

 

I would agree with JT1 that if DT wins a 3rd Gorriaran to go with a 2nd NCAA title, that it would deserve recognition - but it would get somewhat lost in the shuffle - especially if PSU wins again along with Ruth's 3rd title and if other team mates also win.

 

In short - it will be just more icing on a big cake

 

I started a post last month hi-lighting DT and the significance of pins & their points at the D1 tourney

 

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=21537

 

 

OK ST had 4 guys who won 5 bouts each but had no falls

 

These guys had 20 wins, 3 losses, 8 majors and 12 decisions

 

If these 4 guys had added just 3 or 4 pins in those 20 wins - they probably win the team title

 

Not saying these guys did not do a great job

 

Just pointing out how big the points from pinning are - and a big factor in PSU's win

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