Hoodwinked by J'Den Cox?

[LifeintheRed 81]

I contend the following and hear me out . . . We've been hoodwinked by J'Den Cox in an attempt to (successfully so far) protect his legacy- there was simply too much at stake and too much to lose. Consider this:

J'Den's legacy is this: Reigning 2x World Champ, 3rd at Olympics and widely regarded as the best American wrestler right now and one of the best P4P wrestlers in the world. But to maintain that legacy, another 2x World Champ, 1x Olympic Champ, World 2nd and 3rd place winner stood in his way. Other than media hype, there is no reason to believe that J'Den Cox would beat Kyle Snyder- he hasn't in two previous attempts and his competition at Worlds to win those titles wasn't great (2nd placer at both recently got beat by Colin Moore). If he looses to Snyder, J'Den would no longer be considered the best American wrestler and not even P4P King in that weight class. Say he beats Snyder, he then has to beat P4P King Sadulaev in the Olympics. 

So he formulated a plan to miss weigh-in, craft USA Wrestling at the bad guys and himself a victim, knowing that if he missed the tournament there wouldn't just be a special wrestle-off between he and Synder because of the way brackets were, sell the story by filing a suit and acting disappointed/angered, etc, and now canceling the lawsuit. I suspect well see him wrestle Worlds at 92 and win gold, and still be considered the best American wrestler right now and one of the best P4P. Additionally, he buys himself another 3 years to decide what to do for the next Olympic cycle. There was just too much at stake- what he would have gained by winning didn't outweigh what he could have lost with a loss. 

Discuss.

[D3 for LU 58]

It seems you got wwwwwwwwwwwway too much time on your hands... shouldn't you be outside, cleaning up the yard or something?

I gotta run some errands, now... tootles!

D3

[SBPCOACH 4]

The theory sounds good and I don't necessarily disagree with it, it does make sense, I just don't think that is the case. As much as we'd like to think about some conspiracy theory or put blame on someone, in my opinion, I put the blame on him personally. He had one job in this, to get to weigh ins, that was his only job. To insinuate it could have been coaches fault, is nuts. As a wrestler and now coach, I double, triple, quadruple check weigh in times and what not. Sometimes every 5 min leading up to a big competition, double check with people to make sure everything is right. I just think he dropped the ball. He's a grown man and can figure out when weigh times are. He doesn't need a coach to tell him that. Only he really knows what happened. Good thread though.


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[drag it 465]

I think the analysis adds to the conversation because it belies with data and argument the assumption of a surprising number of posters that Cox is obviously the best 97 U.S. guy (and that he is a good bet vs Sadulaev).  

Don't buy the conspiracy theory conclusion and am guessing it was thrown in there to be provocative and to make people think about the point mentioned above.  

[Ogalthorpe Haywood 399]

2 hours ago, LifeintheRed said:

I contend the following and hear me out . . . We've been hoodwinked by J'Den Cox in an attempt to (successfully so far) protect his legacy- there was simply too much at stake and too much to lose. Consider this:

J'Den's legacy is this: Reigning 2x World Champ, 3rd at Olympics and widely regarded as the best American wrestler right now and one of the best P4P wrestlers in the world. But to maintain that legacy, another 2x World Champ, 1x Olympic Champ, World 2nd and 3rd place winner stood in his way. Other than media hype, there is no reason to believe that J'Den Cox would beat Kyle Snyder- he hasn't in two previous attempts and his competition at Worlds to win those titles wasn't great (2nd placer at both recently got beat by Colin Moore). If he looses to Snyder, J'Den would no longer be considered the best American wrestler and not even P4P King in that weight class. Say he beats Snyder, he then has to beat P4P King Sadulaev in the Olympics. 

So he formulated a plan to miss weigh-in, craft USA Wrestling at the bad guys and himself a victim, knowing that if he missed the tournament there wouldn't just be a special wrestle-off between he and Synder because of the way brackets were, sell the story by filing a suit and acting disappointed/angered, etc, and now canceling the lawsuit. I suspect well see him wrestle Worlds at 92 and win gold, and still be considered the best American wrestler right now and one of the best P4P. Additionally, he buys himself another 3 years to decide what to do for the next Olympic cycle. There was just too much at stake- what he would have gained by winning didn't outweigh what he could have lost with a loss. 

Discuss.

I agree with this 100%

[Drew87 349]

4 hours ago, LifeintheRed said:

I contend the following and hear me out . . . We've been hoodwinked by J'Den Cox in an attempt to (successfully so far) protect his legacy- there was simply too much at stake and too much to lose. Consider this:

J'Den's legacy is this: Reigning 2x World Champ, 3rd at Olympics and widely regarded as the best American wrestler right now and one of the best P4P wrestlers in the world. But to maintain that legacy, another 2x World Champ, 1x Olympic Champ, World 2nd and 3rd place winner stood in his way. Other than media hype, there is no reason to believe that J'Den Cox would beat Kyle Snyder- he hasn't in two previous attempts and his competition at Worlds to win those titles wasn't great (2nd placer at both recently got beat by Colin Moore). If he looses to Snyder, J'Den would no longer be considered the best American wrestler and not even P4P King in that weight class. Say he beats Snyder, he then has to beat P4P King Sadulaev in the Olympics. 

So he formulated a plan to miss weigh-in, craft USA Wrestling at the bad guys and himself a victim, knowing that if he missed the tournament there wouldn't just be a special wrestle-off between he and Synder because of the way brackets were, sell the story by filing a suit and acting disappointed/angered, etc, and now canceling the lawsuit. I suspect well see him wrestle Worlds at 92 and win gold, and still be considered the best American wrestler right now and one of the best P4P. Additionally, he buys himself another 3 years to decide what to do for the next Olympic cycle. There was just too much at stake- what he would have gained by winning didn't outweigh what he could have lost with a loss. 

Discuss.

I like it, I think he just flubbed weigh-ins and KJ formulated the “wrong time” idea and fell on his sword like a champ to hopefully help his athlete who just couldn’t get down to weight. I think KJ is the real unsung hero here.

[Mphillips 1,655]

46 minutes ago, Drew87 said:

I like it, I think he just flubbed weigh-ins and KJ formulated the “wrong time” idea and fell on his sword like a champ to hopefully help his athlete who just couldn’t get down to weight. I think KJ is the real unsung hero here.

92 Cant look to good then...

[jp157 479]

[Plasmodium 2,220]

When did Cox lose to Snyder? Over six years ago?

This is crazy.   If Cox wants his legacy to be the best American, he has to we earn it in the Olympics.  No way he forfeits one of three chances to be an Olympic gold medalist. 

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Plasmodium

[alliseeisgold 94]

if he wasn't hoodwinking he would be more than a little upset jmo

[treep2000 1,124]

7 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

When did Cox lose to Snyder? Over six years ago?

This is crazy.   If Cox wants his legacy to be the best American, he has to we earn it in the Olympics.  No way he forfeits one of three chances to be an Olympic gold medalist. 

 

This video keeps floating around as evidence of a sure Cox victory.  However, what we don't know is full context.  Drilling in a room.  A match in a room.  An agreed upon session where certain things were worked on? 

Is there factual proof and / or admission that this was the case?  Otherwise, this is just drilling to me.  Hell... The drilling videos of Echemendia make it seem that he can beat JO. 

[Lurker 2,033]

OP can't actually believe this.

[jross 521]

8 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

if he wasn't hoodwinking he would be more than a little upset jmo

Not everyone throws one’s toys out of the pram.

[simple 296]

D-

[LifeintheRed 81]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

OP can't actually believe this.

I mean . . . kinda??  

I'm otherwise supposed to believe that he was the only wrestler to miss weigh ins for something as important as the Olympic Trials? Not only that, but he showed up overweight for a weight class 11 lbs heavier that he has wrestled before with a full 39 minutes until scales closed and couldn't get the weight off? That's just as unbelievable IMO. The next day he was shaking hands, kissing babies and giving away a bunch of free gear to fans, his face indicative of a heavy (pun completely intended) burden being lifted. 

It's only a theory (one of many), but I don't think it's as far out there as you think.

[LifeintheRed 81]

10 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

When did Cox lose to Snyder? Over six years ago?

This is crazy.   If Cox wants his legacy to be the best American, he has to we earn it in the Olympics.  No way he forfeits one of three chances to be an Olympic gold medalist. 

 

It is crazy- agreed! Almost as crazy as claiming you got weigh-in times mixed up and showing up overweight for Olympic trials or using a 1-minute practice room video as proof that Cox will beat Snyder. I do not know one wrestler, ever, who has not gotten taken down in a practice room at least once. :)

[Dutch 1]

That whole thing was so bizarre. At this point, any theory is on the table in my mind. That being said, I feel like you could make a lot of money writing novels (fiction or maybe not, whose to say) with your current level of creativity.

[Plasmodium 2,220]

6 hours ago, LifeintheRed said:

It is crazy- agreed! Almost as crazy as claiming you got weigh-in times mixed up and showing up overweight for Olympic trials or using a 1-minute practice room video as proof that Cox will beat Snyder. I do not know one wrestler, ever, who has not gotten taken down in a practice room at least once. :)

He did not show up overweight.  They all show up a couple over and get a good workout in. The video doesn't show that he would beat Snyder,  merely that it is  crazy to doubt his belief in himself.

[Lurker 2,033]

20 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

He did not show up overweight.  They all show up a couple over and get a good workout in. The video doesn't show that he would beat Snyder,  merely that it is  crazy to doubt his belief in himself.

Probably better to say he did in fact show up a little overweight, but as even Dake said in his interview with Sonnen, it is pretty common place to do so.

[hammerlockthree 2,581]

On 5/8/2021 at 1:21 PM, LifeintheRed said:

I contend the following and hear me out . . . We've been hoodwinked by J'Den Cox in an attempt to (successfully so far) protect his legacy- there was simply too much at stake and too much to lose. Consider this:

J'Den's legacy is this: Reigning 2x World Champ, 3rd at Olympics and widely regarded as the best American wrestler right now and one of the best P4P wrestlers in the world. But to maintain that legacy, another 2x World Champ, 1x Olympic Champ, World 2nd and 3rd place winner stood in his way. Other than media hype, there is no reason to believe that J'Den Cox would beat Kyle Snyder- he hasn't in two previous attempts and his competition at Worlds to win those titles wasn't great (2nd placer at both recently got beat by Colin Moore). If he looses to Snyder, J'Den would no longer be considered the best American wrestler and not even P4P King in that weight class. Say he beats Snyder, he then has to beat P4P King Sadulaev in the Olympics. 

So he formulated a plan to miss weigh-in, craft USA Wrestling at the bad guys and himself a victim, knowing that if he missed the tournament there wouldn't just be a special wrestle-off between he and Synder because of the way brackets were, sell the story by filing a suit and acting disappointed/angered, etc, and now canceling the lawsuit. I suspect well see him wrestle Worlds at 92 and win gold, and still be considered the best American wrestler right now and one of the best P4P. Additionally, he buys himself another 3 years to decide what to do for the next Olympic cycle. There was just too much at stake- what he would have gained by winning didn't outweigh what he could have lost with a loss. 

Discuss.

its certainly possible. The story as is makes no sense.

[AnklePicker 643]

8 hours ago, LifeintheRed said:

I mean . . . kinda??  

I'm otherwise supposed to believe that he was the only wrestler to miss weigh ins for something as important as the Olympic Trials? Not only that, but he showed up overweight for a weight class 11 lbs heavier that he has wrestled before with a full 39 minutes until scales closed and couldn't get the weight off? That's just as unbelievable IMO. The next day he was shaking hands, kissing babies and giving away a bunch of free gear to fans, his face indicative of a heavy (pun completely intended) burden being lifted. 

It's only a theory (one of many), but I don't think it's as far out there as you think.

Well Cormier missed weight AT the Olympics so it’s possible I guess but as I said immediately after this happened, Cox didn’t want to wrestle. Cormier, even though he shouldn’t have, had a hard time making the weight,  Cox was up a weight. It’s just out of the realm of possibilities.  

[jchapman 1,318]

1 minute ago, AnklePicker said:

Well Cormier missed weight AT the Olympics so it’s possible I guess but as I said immediately after this happened, Cox didn’t want to wrestle. Cormier, even though he shouldn’t have, had a hard time making the weight,  Cox was up a weight. It’s just out of the realm of possibilities.  

Cormier made weight at the Olympics.

[AnklePicker 643]

7 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Cormier made weight at the Olympics.

You’re right I misremembered my bad, just damn near killed himself and couldn’t compete. 

[hammerlockthree 2,581]

1 hour ago, AnklePicker said:

You’re right I misremembered my bad, just damn near killed himself and couldn’t compete. 

You should have pointed out that he prevented hahn from weighing in by making weight and should have missed. could have avoided an apology! 

[Plasmodium 2,220]

3 hours ago, Lurker said:

Probably better to say he did in fact show up a little overweight, but as even Dake said in his interview with Sonnen, it is pretty common place to do so.

He was over 97, but weighed what he wanted to.