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Dutch

Is it time?

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With the shortened college season last year, many of the RTCs filled the void  with their own televised matches. I for one really enjoyed watching several of them. It seems that over the last 5 years or so, that there has been an accelerated interest and viewership in college wrestling. If our athletes perform well at the Olympics? 1) Do you think that this is the time to use that momentum to make a run at establishing a professional league at least at a regional level? 2) Would you support such an endeavor with real world money, either through subscription or pay per view?

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Flo will continue to have pro cards. I’m sure RTCS will too, now that they can make money off of them. 
cc

I think they will be pseudo leagues. I’m not sure if we are ready for a full season with teams, etc. there isn’t a lot of loyalty to RTCs 

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I kind of like the idea of cards as opposed to leagues to be honest with you.  The successful models for individual combat sports is in event cards, not leagues.  As you said there was great interest in the "covid cards".  It showed us they work, and are something that can grow and attract new interest in the sport.  In the other thread someone brought up the idea of a Cox vs Sadulaev card, pre-Olympics.  While that has a snowball's chance....the idea of a Cox-Sadulaev card is a hot, hot ticket.  The kind of ticket that could get people who don't really know these cats, just know they are an American and a Russian and considered among two of the very best in the world.  I think Russians and other international athletes can get behind this as well.  Pretty sure Sad, Ugaev, other Russians, particularly from Dagestan, are in contacts with Khabib and seeing what he's getting out of doing his thing in American business markets.  Russians get very well taken care of when they win world, and especially Olympic medals,  but a trip to USA and 50k to wrestle a match is still an offer hard to turn down.  And I'm sure the coaches/ NT staff will get their taste.  I could really see a true professional aspect form from this, but I think its in cards instead of leagues.  And you can still have the Club cups each year to get that team competition.

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4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I kind of like the idea of cards as opposed to leagues to be honest with you. 

This is the way to go! It has worked so far and will continue to work. The lesser known names can get paid (albeit, less) to fill out the card for the superstars. This is how UFC, boxing, kickboxing, and every successful pro combat sport works. The team aspect works in college because people root for teams first, individuals a very distant second. It won't work in pro wrestling. Even pro fake wrestling is about the individuals.

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House, I have thought about that too. I am not anti-Flo, nor pro-Flo. I have subscribed in the past. My feeling is that Flo is about Flo first and sports second. With espn hemorrhaging subscribers and as a result revenue, I think they will be looking to liquidate cash anywhere they can find it. I think they may try to squeeze Flo out of the college market, so they don't have to share ad revenue. Let's be honest Flo won't survive on competitive cheerleding, running, and international wrestling. No offensse to those sports. I feel like their will be a void there soon, and if there was someone/thing to step in that is passionate about growing the sport that would be ideal. You make a good point though.

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Good points Lurker. I agree, the scenario you described doesn't lend itself to teams. I envisioned it (not that anyone asked about my vision) that if teams were succesful, that it may grow to include international talent. Similar trajectory as the ufc developed. I do see alot of political snags, especially in the old Russian republic countries. If you had teams, you could do a draft every year to keep the "hype" going plus fanatasy leagues and more gambling. To be truthful, gambling is one of the catalysts that keep pro sports going.  I think the other problem would be scoring if these guys kepp popping in and out of the league to compete internationally, but I think it would be great if these athletes could earn a salary independent of RTC. I just don't think revenue based on fundraising is a good long term strategy for growth. Aftrer reading your take, I am less optamistic about it. Your position makes a lot of sense.

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Chew on this: $69.99 PPV event in spring 2022. Flo subscribers have to purchase due to the special financial nature of this being a field as strong as worlds. If you market this correctly it can be successful.

$150k guaranteed to the international talent and  $50k to the domestic competitors. $150k to the winner. Money talks and that’s the only way you will get competitors to agree to something of this nature. $1.65M on the table means weigh-ins and morality clauses would be required so no funny business occurs. To break even without touching reserves, 23,571 views need to be purchased. If others such as TMWC and Rudis and Rocket Mortgage partner up then that reduces the cost and increases the likelihood of profitability.

3 x 4 man tourney

Taylor, Cox, Snyder, Sadulaev

JB, Dake, Sidakov, Zhamalov

Geno, Taha, Zaire, Gable

Edited by bnwtwg

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bnwtwg, that is amazing. You are a man of unigue vision. The only weakness to your plan is you didn't mention Pat Downey. Flo loves Pat Downey. That could be a deal breaker for them

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8 hours ago, Lurker said:

Russians get very well taken care of when they win world, and especially Olympic medals,  but a trip to USA and 50k to wrestle a match is still an offer hard to turn down.

So, one thing I’m curious about, is it related to the medals itself, or are they well taken care of for representing Russia well on a global stage?

I kinda hope it’s the latter, bc there is all kinds of room for a professional world cup or goodwill games style event.  

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5 hours ago, Drew87 said:

So, one thing I’m curious about, is it related to the medals itself, or are they well taken care of for representing Russia well on a global stage?

I kinda hope it’s the latter, bc there is all kinds of room for a professional world cup or goodwill games style event.  

Good question.  To be honest I don't know the disparity between being an olympic champ, and being their #2 guy that goes 4-0 in the world cup, as far as financial reward goes.  Would be interesting to learn.   

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11 hours ago, Dutch said:

bnwtwg, that is amazing. You are a man of unigue vision. The only weakness to your plan is you didn't mention Pat Downey. Flo loves Pat Downey. That could be a deal breaker for them

His dad owes $100 to charity and I don't deal with deadbeats

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I think we are getting closer and closer to a pro league. The 8 man brackets were my favorite. The cards were ok, i think just one match lacks a bit of intensity. If cards were best of 3 they would be better. I think the build up of a tournament to a final or a best of 3 adds to the energy of the event. 

The RTC duals were also a great event. If we had more duals between RTCs that would catch on too. The problem is that some RTCs dont have a full line up, so it would have to be combined clubs or a region or area to get to a league. But I think 8 man tournaments and RTC duals are the way to go. Or if cards keep happening make them best of 3. 

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Where will the money come from to pay for a league or a continuation of these cards once the pandemic is over? We get spoiled by watching the college dual meet season, but a college wrestling team is a small part of a large organization, and they are highly subsidized by their institutions and student fees.

I wish such a thing existed. I would love to be able to watch it. I don't think there are enough people like me (and others on this message board) to make it financially viable. I hope that I'm wrong.

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On 5/9/2021 at 3:46 PM, bnwtwg said:

Chew on this: $69.99 PPV event in spring 2022. Flo subscribers have to purchase due to the special financial nature of this being a field as strong as worlds. If you market this correctly it can be successful.

$150k guaranteed to the international talent and  $50k to the domestic competitors. $150k to the winner. Money talks and that’s the only way you will get competitors to agree to something of this nature. $1.65M on the table means weigh-ins and morality clauses would be required so no funny business occurs. To break even without touching reserves, 23,571 views need to be purchased. If others such as TMWC and Rudis and Rocket Mortgage partner up then that reduces the cost and increases the likelihood of profitability.

3 x 4 man tourney

Taylor, Cox, Snyder, Sadulaev

JB, Dake, Sidakov, Zhamalov

Geno, Taha, Zaire, Gable

Yazdani needs to be in one of these brackets.  He is a Olympic gold medalist, multiple time world champ, and has a huge following.  He is more accomplished than at least half the guys listed above.   

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4 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

Yazdani needs to be in one of these brackets.  He is a Olympic gold medalist, multiple time world champ, and has a huge following.  He is more accomplished than at least half the guys listed above.   

Do you think there would be more people who pay $69.99 for Gable or for Yazdani, even though Yaz is significantly more accomplished?

4 hours ago, Lurker said:

Not sure I like the international guys getting 3x the guarantee as the Americans. 

Money talks and that's the only way you are getting foreign elite to join a concept such as this. If you have a better proposal I'm sure Flo/Rokfin/etc. are all ears...

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6 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Do you think there would be more people who pay $69.99 for Gable or for Yazdani, even though Yaz is significantly more accomplished?

Money talks and that's the only way you are getting foreign elite to join a concept such as this. If you have a better proposal I'm sure Flo/Rokfin/etc. are all ears...

Geez...no need to be touchy. Sharing an opinion in response to you sharing yours...

Anyway, I like the concept. Although it’s not a new concept it’s just a matter of trying to get 2-3 headline matches as opposed to 1.  But who doesn’t like the idea of getting the very top of the top on the mat together. Of course!

I don’t like the idea of the international guys getting 3x the guarantee for a number of reasons:

First and foremost it pretty much makes sure the event doesn’t happen. You think JB, Taylor, Gable, et al are going to agree to getting paid 50k while Sidakov, Sad, and Geno get 150, from an American company, invested mostly with American dollars (a secondary issue with that aspect)?  I don’t see any chance in hell that happening. On the other hand, I don’t see the Sad’s and Gene’s of the world turning down, say a 75/75k split with their world or Olympic champ opponent?? 
 

Eluding back to the point of an American company being invested and paid in majority of American dollars, sending three times the prize money to foreign athletes over our own American world and Olympic champions.....is just bad business in my opinion. And a slap in the face to our athletes. I wouldn’t pay for it if those were the terms just on that matter alone. 
 

Money does talk and 75k to those foreign guys is a pretty loud voice as well. I mean there’s the American lap of luxury, and then there’s a lap of luxury in countries such as Azerbaijan, Georgia, etc...it’s all relative. 
 

just my opinions...

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