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2 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

I wish I could've wrestled in high school at age 23. 

OK. 

I wish I made a trip to Guatemala, survived a harrowing trek across Mexico and made it into the US.  Then I could attract a small army of critics and watch them obsess over me and create wild exaggerations about my age. 

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kid is the living embodiment of the american dream, he’s at least as american as any of us.

 

How many people would say the same thing about the anonymous guy who re-roofs their neighbors house or picks the food they eat?

 

However, ignoring his immigration to the US, he IS substantially older than the people he was wrestling as a senior in high school. Do I wish him well? Of course. But the game is different when you’re wrestling people who are your age, with better FS and folk skills.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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3 minutes ago, Le duke said:

 

How many people would say the same thing about the anonymous guy who re-roofs their neighbors house or picks the food they eat?

 

However, ignoring his immigration to the US, he IS substantially older than the people he was wrestling as a senior in high school. Do I wish him well? Of course. But the game is different when you’re wrestling people who are your age, with better FS and folk skills.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I do believe that very thing, not just would say.

And states have age limits for who they will let compete in High School athlecs, I know mine did, I wrestled a dude who was 19 on the way to states back in the day, he wound up taking 3rd.  I was 17 at the time.  He was legit anyway, but and that was a big two years.

I just looked it up, Arizona’s is 19 as well.  What’s different between this and the plans of the Ferrari clan?
https://www.peoriaunified.org/cms/lib/AZ01924969/Centricity/Domain/484/AIA Eligibility Requirements.pdf

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41 minutes ago, Drew87 said:

I do believe that very thing, not just would say.

And states have age limits for who they will let compete in High School athlecs, I know mine did, I wrestled a dude who was 19 on the way to states back in the day, he wound up taking 3rd.  I was 17 at the time.  He was legit anyway, but and that was a big two years.

I just looked it up, Arizona’s is 19 as well.  What’s different between this and the plans of the Ferrari clan?
https://www.peoriaunified.org/cms/lib/AZ01924969/Centricity/Domain/484/AIA Eligibility Requirements.pdf

Did you miss the drama a few months ago? Etch is alleged to have been anywhere from 21 - 28 when he won Fargo. 

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1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

Did you miss the drama a few months ago? Etch is alleged to have been anywhere from 21 - 28 when he won Fargo. 

I did indeed miss all of it, if so, YIKES!! That would void an awful lot of good will...

28? How you even make that happen? Can someone carbon date a hair or something? lol...my god...

Edited by Drew87

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18 minutes ago, Drew87 said:

I did indeed miss all of it, if so, YIKES!! That would void an awful lot of good will...

28? How you even make that happen? Can someone carbon date a hair or something? lol...my god...

 

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4 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

OK. 

I wish I made a trip to Guatemala, survived a harrowing trek across Mexico and made it into the US.  Then I could attract a small army of critics and watch them obsess over me and create wild exaggerations about my age. 

Honestly I don't believe half of that. There are a lot of inconsistencies and holes in that story. It just seems a little too coincidental for all of this to happen like that. This is also from knowing people who have immigrated here illegally or claimed refugee status. 

What I do buy is he left a training camp to come here. But think about this. Let's say you're approached by a coach in the US who says, hey if you make it here I'll help you out, and then he doesn't help you get there. I would tend to believe if someone makes you that kind of promise, they're going to do something to help you out. This isn't the Hunger Games where you get rewarded if you survive a multinational adventure on foot. 

I do believe he was detained in immigration lockup. That's pretty standard because they have to at least verify who you claim to be. Problem here is he had no ID. He's from a country that routinely has lied about the age of elite athletes, and has notoriously bad record keeping when it comes to things like birth records, especially if you're not from a major city like Echemendia is. I think he was more than likely told what to say and to stick to that story. Suppose he had deviated from that, it's likely his ticket to success goes away if he doesn't stick to the plan. 

His relationship with the coach that encouraged him to come here is murky. He's claimed he's a relative and other times not. If they are actually related then why would you subject your "nephew" to such a terrible trip of hiking through the jungle and not having much on your way here. He could have gotten an airline ticket and flown here to surrender to immigration authorities at the border. It's not as if flying from Guatemala is prohibitively expensive. You could fly to Tijuana from Guatemala City for $200. That gets you knocking on Uncle Sam's door. 

So yes you can see how a lot of this sounds suspicious and a little too coincidental. 

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1 hour ago, Drew87 said:

Consider me up to speed, Yikes, I guess development will be out the window simply due to age if there is veracity to any of that...

Well, I don't know why all these guys want to spoil a good rag to riches story.  His wiki says he was born September 10, 1999.  Perfectly consistent with the rules for Spring 2019 competition in AZ.  Also consistent with Threadkilla's cadet video.  I have never seen any actual evidence to dispute his age. 

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4 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

Honestly I don't believe half of that. There are a lot of inconsistencies and holes in that story. It just seems a little too coincidental for all of this to happen like that. This is also from knowing people who have immigrated here illegally or claimed refugee status. 

What I do buy is he left a training camp to come here. But think about this. Let's say you're approached by a coach in the US who says, hey if you make it here I'll help you out, and then he doesn't help you get there. I would tend to believe if someone makes you that kind of promise, they're going to do something to help you out. This isn't the Hunger Games where you get rewarded if you survive a multinational adventure on foot. 

I do believe he was detained in immigration lockup. That's pretty standard because they have to at least verify who you claim to be. Problem here is he had no ID. He's from a country that routinely has lied about the age of elite athletes, and has notoriously bad record keeping when it comes to things like birth records, especially if you're not from a major city like Echemendia is. I think he was more than likely told what to say and to stick to that story. Suppose he had deviated from that, it's likely his ticket to success goes away if he doesn't stick to the plan. 

His relationship with the coach that encouraged him to come here is murky. He's claimed he's a relative and other times not. If they are actually related then why would you subject your "nephew" to such a terrible trip of hiking through the jungle and not having much on your way here. He could have gotten an airline ticket and flown here to surrender to immigration authorities at the border. It's not as if flying from Guatemala is prohibitively expensive. You could fly to Tijuana from Guatemala City for $200. That gets you knocking on Uncle Sam's door. 

So yes you can see how a lot of this sounds suspicious and a little too coincidental. 

You’re obsession with this guy is obvious.  You may need help.  I don’t know him or his age but keep the thread on track.

Oh wait, page 2 of this thread.  Time to take it off the rails.  In that case, nice work.

Let’s discuss something less controversial: 30 year olds on a second graduate degree in corn cultivation wrestling for the Hawkeyes.  Go!

Ech would be a third year Penn St. freshman if he matriculated there.

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On 5/16/2021 at 6:15 PM, TripNSweep said:

I wish I could've wrestled in high school at age 23. 

Sorta similar: I had a new 8th grader in my freestyle club. His family was from Afghanistan. We went to a tournament at Mannheim (cool fact about that tournament: Napoli and Kindig wrestled a great match). We were in line to register and as it was the first tournament of the spring, most of the guys were signing up for their USA cards. While he was filling out his form, Atal was speaking to.his dad in farsi, confused. I went over to see if I could help. He was trying to figure out his age group. I told him he was a cadet and went about my business. When the brackets are posted, he's listed as a junior. So, I go to the tournament director to fix the issue only to learn that there was no mistake. Atal was almost 18. 

Edited by jackwebster

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To summarize, the issue with the Echemendia situation as as follows:

  • People think he's much older than he actually is, thus helping him produce the results that we saw at Fargo, etc. - CONJECTURE
  • Echemendia has a story of immigration and people find his story inspiring and uplifting - FEELINGS
  • Echemendia was hyped to be an amazing addition to the tOSU room, some even calling for him to land on the NCAA podium (even the top if it), prior to his past season - FACT
  • Echemendia didn't even crack the lineup at tOSU, being beaten out by D'emilio - FACT

Given just "some" of the facts, conjecture, and feelings at play, I find it highly disingenuous to "lambaste" someone or to "cancel" their skepticism, given that the facts remain that this dude was an overhyped story line that many in the wrestling community and wrestling media ran with.  The "feel good" storylines and his few high amplitude matches (against what now seems to be a similarly overhyped opponent) cannot and should not outweigh the fact that he's just not the good at folkstyle.  I'm even questioning his freestyle chops, because from what I've seen, he's not really that great on his feet like we were made to believe during Fargo.  

Maybe he just had the tourney of his life, and now we're seeing the real product?  

I dunno.  Most of you who have been on here for a few years know that I am a tOSU fan, and I honestly wish the guy nothing but luck and success, but the hype train was deafeningly loud leading into this season, and his performances were equally as anti-climatic.  I'd like to see his success, as it would benefit tOSU, but... I'm not holding my breath.  

 

Edited by treep2000

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6 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

Honestly I don't believe half of that. There are a lot of inconsistencies and holes in that story. It just seems a little too coincidental for all of this to happen like that. This is also from knowing people who have immigrated here illegally or claimed refugee status. 

What I do buy is he left a training camp to come here. But think about this. Let's say you're approached by a coach in the US who says, hey if you make it here I'll help you out, and then he doesn't help you get there. I would tend to believe if someone makes you that kind of promise, they're going to do something to help you out. This isn't the Hunger Games where you get rewarded if you survive a multinational adventure on foot. 

I do believe he was detained in immigration lockup. That's pretty standard because they have to at least verify who you claim to be. Problem here is he had no ID. He's from a country that routinely has lied about the age of elite athletes, and has notoriously bad record keeping when it comes to things like birth records, especially if you're not from a major city like Echemendia is. I think he was more than likely told what to say and to stick to that story. Suppose he had deviated from that, it's likely his ticket to success goes away if he doesn't stick to the plan. 

His relationship with the coach that encouraged him to come here is murky. He's claimed he's a relative and other times not. If they are actually related then why would you subject your "nephew" to such a terrible trip of hiking through the jungle and not having much on your way here. He could have gotten an airline ticket and flown here to surrender to immigration authorities at the border. It's not as if flying from Guatemala is prohibitively expensive. You could fly to Tijuana from Guatemala City for $200. That gets you knocking on Uncle Sam's door. 

So yes you can see how a lot of this sounds suspicious and a little too coincidental. 

It has been years.  Can you just get over the fact that this guy was a great HS wrester in Arizona a couple years ago?  Whoever it was that you knew/liked that lost to him just wasn't good enough. Sorry, but it happens-it's just HS athletics and basically means nothing.  Ech hasn't panned out so far at tOSU, but that's true for a ton of HS wrestlers when they make the jump.  

The rampant speculation in this post about his immigration status is borderline racist and based on a ton of unfounded assumptions from simply his ethnicity/background.  Would there be these questions if he were from Russia? Why are you so obsessed with him vs the many other international wrestlers we have seen immigrate and compete in HS/the NCAA?

Edited by Billyhoyle

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2 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

It has been years.  Can you just get over the fact that this guy was a great HS wrester in Arizona a couple years ago?  Whoever it was that you knew/liked that lost to him just wasn't good enough. Sorry, but it happens-it's just HS athletics and basically means nothing.  Ech hasn't panned out so far at tOSU, but that's true for a ton of HS wrestlers when they make the jump.  

The rampant speculation in this post about his immigration status is borderline racist and based on a ton of unfounded assumptions from simply his ethnicity/background.  Would there be these questions if he were from Russia? Why are you so obsessed with him vs the many other international wrestlers we have seen immigrate and compete in HS/the NCAA?

I think the "obsession" is found to be in retaliation to the amount of hype.  Many outlets, including Flo, predicted massive positive results from him, so much so as to put him in the lineup at 65kg to go up against James green in the dual tourney... With no real senior level justification(s).  This skepticism then leads to speculation on why he was hyped so much.  To your exact point, why didn't Flo or the wrestling media go nuts with Bekzod?  Why aren't they hyping Arujau and his trajectory?  (They may be, but it wasn't at the level of Echemendia). 

The hype was all because of his particular story that fits the going narrative that immigrants coming thru our southern border should be stories.  It's the "taste makers" at work.

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12 hours ago, Drew87 said:

I do believe that very thing, not just would say.

And states have age limits for who they will let compete in High School athlecs, I know mine did, I wrestled a dude who was 19 on the way to states back in the day, he wound up taking 3rd.  I was 17 at the time.  He was legit anyway, but and that was a big two years.

I just looked it up, Arizona’s is 19 as well.  What’s different between this and the plans of the Ferrari clan?
https://www.peoriaunified.org/cms/lib/AZ01924969/Centricity/Domain/484/AIA Eligibility Requirements.pdf

Isn't AJ 19 or 20 as a college freshman?  Fairly young.

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2 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

Would there be these questions if he were from Russia? Why are you so obsessed with him vs the many other international wrestlers we have seen immigrate and compete in HS/the NCAA?

Yes... I have seen skepticism about the ages of high school student-athletes from former Soviet republics.

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1 hour ago, treep2000 said:

I think the "obsession" is found to be in retaliation to the amount of hype.  Many outlets, including Flo, predicted massive positive results from him, so much so as to put him in the lineup at 65kg to go up against James green in the dual tourney... With no real senior level justification(s).  This skepticism then leads to speculation on why he was hyped so much.  To your exact point, why didn't Flo or the wrestling media go nuts with Bekzod?  Why aren't they hyping Arujau and his trajectory?  (They may be, but it wasn't at the level of Echemendia). 

I think they are hyping Arujua (rightfully so).    I don't remember much hype for Echemendia at the senior level, mostly just in relation to his college potential.

Arujau is American by the way, was born in New York.

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3 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

It has been years.  Can you just get over the fact that this guy was a great HS wrester in Arizona a couple years ago?  Whoever it was that you knew/liked that lost to him just wasn't good enough. Sorry, but it happens-it's just HS athletics and basically means nothing.  Ech hasn't panned out so far at tOSU, but that's true for a ton of HS wrestlers when they make the jump.  

The rampant speculation in this post about his immigration status is borderline racist and based on a ton of unfounded assumptions from simply his ethnicity/background.  Would there be these questions if he were from Russia? Why are you so obsessed with him vs the many other international wrestlers we have seen immigrate and compete in HS/the NCAA?

Uh-oh!!  You've been called a racist.  Time to quit any discussion and quickly accede to the party line:  Anything goes, its all fair to come to America, break any rule that doesn't suit you, possibly even take away a HS Championship dream and citizen's place at a university.  Now quiet down or you will be sent to reeducation / indoctrination. 

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On 5/14/2021 at 5:02 PM, treep2000 said:

 

Still not even seeing that he's that good on his feet.  If he was, why wouldn't we see a Kyle Snyder or Kollin Moore rate of attack and finish?  Those superior on their feet should be going for takedown clinics.  Not seeing it... 

i agree, but that is more of an american mindset

you dont see the rest of the world attacking at that rate... i dont know why...

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13 hours ago, Drew87 said:

I do believe that very thing, not just would say.

And states have age limits for who they will let compete in High School athlecs, I know mine did, I wrestled a dude who was 19 on the way to states back in the day, he wound up taking 3rd.  I was 17 at the time.  He was legit anyway, but and that was a big two years.

I just looked it up, Arizona’s is 19 as well.  What’s different between this and the plans of the Ferrari clan?
https://www.peoriaunified.org/cms/lib/AZ01924969/Centricity/Domain/484/AIA Eligibility Requirements.pdf

yep

there was a kid in nebraska who was going to go back to his home state to wrestle his senior year. He was too old, so he had to finish in nebraska

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4 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

The rampant speculation in this post about his immigration status is borderline racist and based on a ton of unfounded assumptions from simply his ethnicity/background.  

How is any of what he posted borderline "racist"?

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31 minutes ago, PSUSMC said:

How is any of what he posted borderline "racist"?

Isn't that xenophobia and not racist?

 

I know an apple and an orange are both fruits, so not sure how much it matters... but still.

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