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1 hour ago, GockeS said:

i agree, but that is more of an american mindset

you dont see the rest of the world attacking at that rate... i dont know why...

Haven't seen him wrestle much since he's made it to college but will probably take awhile before he reaches "The Hyped Potential" everyone complains about. He went 4-1 last season (per wrestlestat) and only lost to Eierman and was "injured" afterwards. 

 

Until he adopts the "American" mindset of a high attack rate folkstyle will be a struggle. Him and the Cuban at Iowa state have some of the same issues being new to Folk.  They start every match down 1 or 2 points (riding time and choosing down for an escape.) and all their takedowns are worth 1 point when their opponents are 2 plus a ride out.  

Just my observation of why they weren't instant successes in college. 

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20 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Isn't that xenophobia and not racist?

 

I know an apple and an orange are both fruits, so not sure how much it matters... but still.

There’s a level of vitriol in his repeated posts that go beyond simply questioning his age and an emphasis on his legal status that I’ve never seen placed on a white athlete and is way over the line. 
 

It’s really difficult to understand why somebody would hold a grudge now 2 years later over his competing in HS athletics. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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2 hours ago, TFBJR said:

Uh-oh!!  You've been called a racist.  Time to quit any discussion and quickly accede to the party line:  Anything goes, its all fair to come to America, break any rule that doesn't suit you, possibly even take away a HS Championship dream and citizen's place at a university.  Now quiet down or you will be sent to reeducation / indoctrination. 

Universities aren’t only for US citizens, and if he took away somebody’s dream, that athlete should have trained more and won it on the mat. Also, I’m pretty sure 2 years is more than enough time to get over a dream of winning a state title in Arizona. If it were PA or CA I’d see your point, but we are talking about AZ here. The obsession over this guy makes zero sense. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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14 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Universities aren’t only for US citizens, and if he took away somebody’s dream, that athlete should have trained more and won it on the mat. Also, I’m pretty sure 2 years is more than enough time to get over a dream of winning a state title in Arizona. If it were PA or CA I’d see your point, but we are talking about AZ here. The obsession over this guy makes zero sense. 

Don't tell him about grad school. If he knew how many Korean, Saudi, Chinese, Brazilian, English, French and other grad students were in my grad program, his head would explode. 

How dare those international grad students pay 2.5x what an in-state undergrad student does, effectively financing the scholarship for another student!

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33 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

There’s a level of vitriol in his repeated posts that go beyond simply questioning his age and an emphasis on his legal status that I’ve never seen placed on a white athlete and is way over the line. 
 

It’s really difficult to understand why somebody would hold a grudge now 2 years later over his competing in HS athletics. 

If there are accusations of racism, I think it is fair to ask: What race is Echemendia?

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I have nothing against a foreigner coming here at all. There were tons of foreign students I went to school with and I was only bothered by the guys who over did it on the Axe body spray instead of showering regularly.

I do have a problem with someone committing fraud and parlaying that into something that causes this kind of situation. If it is ever proven that he lied then he could be jailed and likely deported. See the government doesn't take kindly to that. Race has nothing to do with whether you are lying or not.

We actually had another scandal about this in AZ. A school had a kid on their football and basketball teams who had already graduated high school in Canada, ignoring that in order to win. Then the next year one of their girls basketball players was also over the age limit but they had still let her play. People, including me, felt they should have had a more severe punishment than a 1 year postseason ban. But that's all they got. 

As far as Echemendia goes, I don't think he's entirely to blame. If you're in his situation, a kid from a rural part of Cuba who is told if he leaves and does this, he can have a better life and more opportunities, who wouldn't jump at it? It just seems a little coincidental that he happened to know a coach at a regionally powerful high school wrestling team who he just happened to be eligible to wrestle for because his birthday is just inside the cutoff. 

I think people are/were afraid to question it because they don't want to be called racist or xenophobic. But he did a great job of purging his social media of anything that might have cast some doubt. Especially his birthday that once had him listed as being born in 1995. 

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55 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

If there are accusations of racism, I think it is fair to ask: What race is Echemendia?

Lol I’m looking forward to this question breaking the matrix...

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8 minutes ago, Drew87 said:

Lol I’m looking forward to this question breaking the matrix...

Wait till some of them find out there’s more blonds in Guadalajara than there is in many parts of the Midwest and West Virginia lol

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23 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

I have nothing against a foreigner coming here at all. There were tons of foreign students I went to school with and I was only bothered by the guys who over did it on the Axe body spray instead of showering regularly.

I do have a problem with someone committing fraud and parlaying that into something that causes this kind of situation. If it is ever proven that he lied then he could be jailed and likely deported. See the government doesn't take kindly to that. Race has nothing to do with whether you are lying or not.

We actually had another scandal about this in AZ. A school had a kid on their football and basketball teams who had already graduated high school in Canada, ignoring that in order to win. Then the next year one of their girls basketball players was also over the age limit but they had still let her play. People, including me, felt they should have had a more severe punishment than a 1 year postseason ban. But that's all they got. 

As far as Echemendia goes, I don't think he's entirely to blame. If you're in his situation, a kid from a rural part of Cuba who is told if he leaves and does this, he can have a better life and more opportunities, who wouldn't jump at it? It just seems a little coincidental that he happened to know a coach at a regionally powerful high school wrestling team who he just happened to be eligible to wrestle for because his birthday is just inside the cutoff. 

I think people are/were afraid to question it because they don't want to be called racist or xenophobic. But he did a great job of purging his social media of anything that might have cast some doubt. Especially his birthday that once had him listed as being born in 1995. 

The guy is a university student. Only way he gets deported is if he commits a felony. Just get over it- this happened two years ago now. 2 year old Arizona HS wrestling drama isn’t something to still be upset over. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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1 minute ago, Billyhoyle said:

The guy is a university student. Only way he gets deported is if he commits a felony. Just get over it- this happened two years ago now. 2 year old Arizona HS wrestling drama isn’t something to still be upset over. 

Notice how I don't say anything about Alan Vera. Vera didn't game the system when he got here. Also this isn't about high school drama. I think it's more that Echemendia or somebody around him told him what to say or do and he did it knowing he was cheating the system. No doubt he's a talented wrestler, so let your talent do it for you, not going about it like that. 

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1 minute ago, TripNSweep said:

Notice how I don't say anything about Alan Vera. Vera didn't game the system when he got here. Also this isn't about high school drama. I think it's more that Echemendia or somebody around him told him what to say or do and he did it knowing he was cheating the system. No doubt he's a talented wrestler, so let your talent do it for you, not going about it like that. 

If it's not about HS why do you still care?  He isn't breaking any rule if he is currently 23 wrestling in college.  

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23 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

If it's not about HS why do you still care?  He isn't breaking any rule if he is currently 23 wrestling in college.  

I remember when you were all about not being able to compete past 23 years of age in college. 

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8 minutes ago, Idaho said:

I remember when you were all about not being able to compete past 23 years of age in college. 

I am. That would be a great rule. No reason to hate on any particular athlete though to the point of accusing him of crimes with zero evidence to back it up. Why are some people so triggered by his presence? He isn’t even a starter and there’s incredible vitriol directed at him. 

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1 hour ago, SignificantACCBias said:

Yes, but race seems to be the determining factor in whether you think someone else is lying or not.

National origin isn't race. I know that Russia and it's former Republics have done this, along with Taiwan, places in Africa, etc. I think most people would be suspicious if a foreigner showed up claiming to be high school age, despite looking like a full grown adult with tattoos. Add to the fact that there is a history of this happening with Cuban and Dominican athletes, especially when a few years in age means the difference between a lot of money. 

Let's suppose this. If he came here and didn't wrestle in high school, didn't go to Fargo, and instead went to the Open and placed 5th or 6th or maybe dnp but had a good showing. How highly do you think he would have been hyped up or recruited? The incentive to cheat was there. 

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5 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

I have nothing against a foreigner coming here at all. There were tons of foreign students I went to school with and I was only bothered by the guys who over did it on the Axe body spray instead of showering regularly.

I do have a problem with someone committing fraud and parlaying that into something that causes this kind of situation. If it is ever proven that he lied then he could be jailed and likely deported. See the government doesn't take kindly to that. Race has nothing to do with whether you are lying or not.

We actually had another scandal about this in AZ. A school had a kid on their football and basketball teams who had already graduated high school in Canada, ignoring that in order to win. Then the next year one of their girls basketball players was also over the age limit but they had still let her play. People, including me, felt they should have had a more severe punishment than a 1 year postseason ban. But that's all they got. 

As far as Echemendia goes, I don't think he's entirely to blame. If you're in his situation, a kid from a rural part of Cuba who is told if he leaves and does this, he can have a better life and more opportunities, who wouldn't jump at it? It just seems a little coincidental that he happened to know a coach at a regionally powerful high school wrestling team who he just happened to be eligible to wrestle for because his birthday is just inside the cutoff. 

I think people are/were afraid to question it because they don't want to be called racist or xenophobic. But he did a great job of purging his social media of anything that might have cast some doubt. Especially his birthday that once had him listed as being born in 1995. 

Four more paragraphs about why your not obsessed with this guy.  Counseling anyone?

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8 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

There’s a level of vitriol in his repeated posts that go beyond simply questioning his age and an emphasis on his legal status that I’ve never seen placed on a white athlete and is way over the line. 
 

It’s really difficult to understand why somebody would hold a grudge now 2 years later over his competing in HS athletics. 

I'm pretty sure PD3 has received some gigantic wheelbarrows full of vitriol.  If it keeps going, we'll have to switch to Geritol. 

I'm pretty sure Andrew Long received his fair share... Gilman takes a ton of crap, and Desanto... Well... Kimura Man had it coming. 

 

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6 hours ago, Idaho said:

I remember when you were all about not being able to compete past 23 years of age in college. 

Hey!  That's my argument!  Let's switch gears to this and hopefully jeep the thread from being banned.

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Ladies... Gentlemen... Others (insert X # of whatever you wish)...

Unless Ech improves greatly, it's really a non starter conversation.  He will ride the bench or transfer to a small school/Juco, and thatll be about it.  

With his level of hype, regardless of age, race, gender, national origin, etc., He should be during off blast double after blast double, running up the score on his own teammate in his wrestleoff, just like what we saw in his Fargo tourney.

This isn't about an American style vs. international style.  The offensive firepower of the international elite are lights out.  Knowing he has bottom troubles, this shouldnt even be a thing to transition to.  

I think this... The only reason the Eierman match was even close for a bit was because of the hype, and the "going in" respect based on the hype.  Imagine nick lee vs. Ech?  Another tech for Lee, but purely based on TD after TD.  

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Looks like he got a good draw (beat 2 EIWA guys and the 4th place finisher from the ACC), but didn't realize D'Emilio finished R16 at NCAA's as a redshirt freshman.    Certainly seems like either D'Emilio or Echemendia could AA in the next year or two.

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9 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

There’s a level of vitriol in his repeated posts that go beyond simply questioning his age and an emphasis on his legal status that I’ve never seen placed on a white athlete and is way over the line. 
 

I've never questioned his legal status. He's a Cuban refugee claiming asylum. There's precedent and special exceptions for Cuban refugees. I'm pointing out if he committed fraud by lying about his age, there likely would be legal consequences. If I lied about my age to do the same thing, I would face legal consequences but different from what he would face from USCIS. 

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On 5/14/2021 at 7:50 PM, Mphillips said:

I believe that's nonsense. There wasn't any talk of that before FLO/ FRL mentioned it yesterday. Not that I've read...

I seem to remember Ryan saying something about that in a post season interview. I could be wrong but that's what I remember. Not like its set in stone or anything but he was exploring that option.

EDIT: OK found it....here is the interview. Ryan's exact quote was "I think Anthony's gonna look at going down to 33....Echemendia.....so we're exploring that". 14:50 marks

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CNGiNL8n531/

Edited by DocBZ

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