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NJDan

Will Koll succeed at Stanford?

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8 hours ago, ugarte said:

this just isn't true. we lost our all-american goalie to notre dame because he couldn't justify paying Cornell tuition even though he had the covid exemption to exhaust his eligibility in grad school. 

Justifying isn't the same thing.

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22 hours ago, NJDan said:

I have my doubts.

It will be very hard to recruit. First, Stanford's admissions criteria are even harder than Cornell's. He has no history of recruiting Californians. (The one high profile recruit from Cali at Cornell was a huge bust.) And if I am a top guy, do I want to go to school that just cancelled my sport? 

You think he'll have a tough time with Californians in California based off of the one kid he had in New York?

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Football admissions and wrestling (or other Olympic sport) admissions are not the same thing. That's why I said some of his success is dependent on what the school is willing to do. Jameis Winston getting in means nothing for wrestling. Look at Duke basketball. They get whoever they want while you still have to be a great student to get in for wrestling.

Stanford Football brought in over $40 million in revenue in 2019-20. They get to play by different rules.

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I think you are probably on to something with that theory. I was really suprised that Koll left Cornell. You know these elite schools, as well as the states that they are in are really in a lot of ways closed systems. The supporters in the communities for high school and college wrestling seems to be a lot more tight knit than many other sports. These long tenured coaches not only become the face of the college program, but also the state's high school programs. It was a little disheartening to see him walk away from Cornell and New York wrestling after so many years. College wrestling is still a bit of a niche sport and I really don't want to see it go the way of football and basketball, where coaches and athletes are flying around between programs in the off season. I don't begrudge Koll's move, he has every right to seek out new opportunities, but I don't see this as being all that great for the sport in general. 

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13 hours ago, Idaho said:

Only 1 of 3 AA were from CA....Only 2 starters were from CA...there were just as many staters from.....get this....NJ 

Seems like Borelli was doing fine recruiting outside of CA. 

they have wrestling in NJ? 

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

You think he'll have a tough time with Californians in California based off of the one kid he had in New York?

No, I am just saying he has not had much success recruiting Californians, Nahshon being the exception. To be sure, he didn't need to do that while at Cornell. It's a lack of evidence of success, not evidence of failure.

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Really it's a mystery. First Stanford cancels wrestling. They it restores it and is so committed that it hires one of the top coaches as, if the rumor is true, an unprecedented salary. Maybe Stanford is saying that if we do it at all we will do it very well. But still, there are contradictions.

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Here's some food for thought, or at least speculation.

Stanford enrollment per class:  about 1,600

Cornell enrollment per class:  about 3,200

Stanford is about 48% male, so you have about 850 males per class. 

Stanford's percentage of students with under 600 SAT scores (per math or verbal section) is about 2-4%, so in the range of 17-34 males per class in that category.  You can be fairly certain that many of those are on the football roster.   

The conclusion is that there is not going to be a lot of academic slack in admissions for wrestlers.  And in a school that's half the size of Cornell, but has to support big time football competitiveness,  admissions slack is harder to come by.  Of course, Stanford's academic standing is higher than Cornell's and it has the attraction of exposure to the west coast (offset by the distance to get there from the prospective recruiting areas).

Having said that, there are enough high achieving wrestlers nationwide to fill up the rosters at the Ivy's,  and Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, UVa and Michigan.  And Koll knows where and who they are. And they know him.  The issue will be getting them to come to Palo Alto instead of staying in the East or Midwest, which is likely closer to home.   But Palo Alto is easier to travel to from a distance than is Cornell, if you're traveling by air.  If he has scholarship money available, it will give him a leg up on the Ivys with respect to students from upper income families. 

 

 

Edited by OldGrappler

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I think one of Rob's strengths seems to be identifying those slightly under-the-radar recruits with a lot of upside.  Nahshon Garrett reportedly had no other programs recruit him.  And who went after Dean?  Simaz?  Jordan Leen? And remember a kid named Travis Lee?  I think Rob will do just fine on the recruiting side.

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8 hours ago, Drew87 said:

Every school slices and dices differently.  Did your goalie get athletic money or merit money?

no such thing as athletic money. it's financial aid or merit. don't know if he was getting any of either. 

3 hours ago, klehner said:

Justifying isn't the same thing.

sure it is. it's the family and the school disagreeing about what the family can afford, an issue that comes up less when the team can provide an athletic scholarship. galajda wasn't the first player Cornell lost over money and won't be the last. doesn't mean i want the model to change but don't put on blinders. 

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Is it possible that Koll is leaving because he wants to avoid working with a bunch of guys who take 6-7 years to graduate from college, as there will be a rash of such student athletes wrestling for the Big Red soon? This is a demographic that he recently inferred were 'losers' who need to get on with their lives.

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37 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

Is it possible that Koll is leaving because he wants to avoid working with a bunch of guys who take 6-7 years to graduate from college, as there will be a rash of such student athletes wrestling for the Big Red soon? This is a demographic that he recently inferred were 'losers' who need to get on with their lives.

I heard he was tired of just plain red and looking for $s to upgrade his wardrobe to cardinal.

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On 5/30/2021 at 2:39 PM, Tofurky said:

Furthermore, there are far too many variables as to why a kid with X high school results does not pan out in college. Every program in every sport has that story. To take it close to home for you, did Mike Grey live up to expectation? How about Scott Winston? Andrew Campolattano? College sports are littered with the "shoulda/coulda/woulda" stories, and they rarely have to do with the coach not being competent enough to develop a student-athlete.

I knew a kid in Oklahoma who was a 3 time state champ that went on to win a Jr World Gold (or whatever the HS level World title is called) in FS. As far as I know he never went to college at all. Got to figure all the top schools would've recruited him,  I think he just didn't have the academics to qualify anywhere. On the other hand, maybe he just got HEW. 

Edited by TobusRex

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3 hours ago, AHamilton said:

Is it possible that Koll is leaving because he wants to avoid working with a bunch of guys who take 6-7 years to graduate from college, as there will be a rash of such student athletes wrestling for the Big Red soon? This is a demographic that he recently inferred were 'losers' who need to get on with their lives.

I didn't see that comment, but I do agree with it :D 

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Stanford typically appears as having the most successful sports programs in Division 1 - and it's not a big school  You don't get all those top athletes by imposing stringent admission requirements for athletes.

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52 minutes ago, witwhiz said:

Stanford typically appears as having the most successful sports programs in Division 1 - and it's not a big school  You don't get all those top athletes by imposing stringent admission requirements for athletes.

Occam's razor. Bingo

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Nahshon was a California state champ and double Fargo AA going into his senior year. There's no way he wasn't recruited by any other school or was unearthed as a diamond in the rough.

Both of things are true: Stanford is more selective than Cornell (overall), and all colleges bend their admissions standards for top athletes, if they are trying to compete. For Koll, the question is how much the standards can bend and if he can overcome any barriers that remain through judicious scholarship use and selling the many positives about Stanford to become nationally competitive.

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18 hours ago, Drew87 said:

Potentially, I’d say Koll was brought in as a fixer, like a mercenary CEO. He speaks the lingo and has the longest tenure of anyone at the other tough academic schools.  He’s the only one with a national caliber record of achievement. I’d guess his job is to shepherd the current stock of high level recruits through along with getting a training framework in place.  The man knows how to hire assistants, and that is his model.  Not to mention he was actually a decent wrestler back in the day, as in was actually a national champ.

I would be fascinated to know the percentage of national champs that were coached by national champs.  Off the top of my head, it seems heavily skewed.

In 2021 it was 100%.... although for Griffith it was an assistant. 

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9 hours ago, Idaho said:

Great interview - thanks for sharing. He lays it all out. Hopefully this will stop all the "maybe he left because......" posts. 

Can you (or anyone) summarize?  I plan to listen but haven’t gotten a chance to yet.

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