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International Ref Pay?

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I'm not sure how it is now, but 15 years ago there was no pay.  You got an expense stipend. (maybe the top two guys, evaluators and what not, would get an actual pay from Fila, but for the most part it is a volunteer venture)

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Zero pay and I can tell you from personal experience, it can cost you a lot in the end(marriage, home, etc).  And any discussion of bribery, gifting and/or favors is absolute nonsense...at least for US, Canadian, Japanese, German and most European officials). Officiating (international styles) is a very expensive hobby.

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9 hours ago, rod_frufit said:

Zero pay and I can tell you from personal experience, it can cost you a lot in the end(marriage, home, etc).  And any discussion of bribery, gifting and/or favors is absolute nonsense...at least for US, Canadian, Japanese, German and most European officials). Officiating (international styles) is a very expensive hobby.

This ^

Even when you do get a stipend, particularly on international trips, you definitely come out of pocket more than you put in. God bless our USAW officials. They get a ton of **** for being volunteers (mostly by people who wouldn’t dare put a whistle around their neck) 

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Ahhhh yeah. I remembered  Criticizing officials is naughty. A truly sacrosanct position. 
 

I suppose any bad calls or corruption is automatically coaches making excuses. I wish I had that much of a get out of jail free card

 

I respect officials btw. But the whole martyring of them to avoid criticism truly irks me.especially when corruption in international is well established 

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3 hours ago, Lurker said:

This ^

Even when you do get a stipend, particularly on international trips, you definitely come out of pocket more than you put in. God bless our USAW officials. They get a ton of **** for being volunteers (mostly by people who wouldn’t dare put a whistle around their neck) 

The wrestlers (probably 95%) are volunteers too.  I don't have a beef with USAW officials as they are just following the rules of FILA (now known as UWW).  My position is we don't need three officials for a match.  They cut wrestling weight classes because the Olympic Event was getting too big but we still have three officials for every match.  NCAA seems to do just fine with two.

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20 minutes ago, John Morgan said:

The wrestlers (probably 95%) are volunteers too.  I don't have a beef with USAW officials as they are just following the rules of FILA (now known as UWW).  My position is we don't need three officials for a match.  They cut wrestling weight classes because the Olympic Event was getting too big but we still have three officials for every match.  NCAA seems to do just fine with two.

Agree to disagree....

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53 minutes ago, John Morgan said:

The wrestlers (probably 95%) are volunteers too.  I don't have a beef with USAW officials as they are just following the rules of FILA (now known as UWW).  My position is we don't need three officials for a match.  They cut wrestling weight classes because the Olympic Event was getting too big but we still have three officials for every match.  NCAA seems to do just fine with two.

Love or hate freestyle it needs 3 refs 

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with the way real wrestling is interpreted, 3 man mechanics is almost required in any high level match... even then officials do not always get it right...

i was the judge on a mat about a month ago and called the points correctly, but, in video review the camera angle did not pick up the correct action and the call was overturned... i talked with our head official afterwards and explained the situation... but you can only do what you can do...

with that being said, we (USAW) have a ton of awful officials that we have to deal with because you just can not get people to go everywhere... i sat mat side of all the the cadet world team finals and was absolutely horrified who they had officiating and the constant issues because of that crew... point being, officials need to be criticized and held accountable... it is the only way to weed out the  chaff from the wheat... 

i had a UWW official try and tell me that you can't be passive on your feet in greco... this was several years ago, but, i will never look at that guy the same ever again...

i will say, sionce USAW has adopted the brick and coaches are no longer able to plead a case and it becomes a straight video reveiw, officials are no longer able to let their egos get in the way of getting the right call, so, it is improving...

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20 minutes ago, LJB said:

with the way real wrestling is interpreted, 3 man mechanics is almost required in any high level match... even then officials do not always get it right...

i was the judge on a mat about a month ago and called the points correctly, but, in video review the camera angle did not pick up the correct action and the call was overturned... i talked with our head official afterwards and explained the situation... but you can only do what you can do...

with that being said, we (USAW) have a ton of awful officials that we have to deal with because you just can not get people to go everywhere... i sat mat side of all the the cadet world team finals and was absolutely horrified who they had officiating and the constant issues because of that crew... point being, officials need to be criticized and held accountable... it is the only way to weed out the  chaff from the wheat... 

i had a UWW official try and tell me that you can't be passive on your feet in greco... this was several years ago, but, i will never look at that guy the same ever again...

i will say, sionce USAW has adopted the brick and coaches are no longer able to plead a case and it becomes a straight video reveiw, officials are no longer able to let their egos get in the way of getting the right call, so, it is improving...

You should hear some of the younger officials irritation at the older officials who are out of date on rules getting grandfathered in while they’re getting reviewed constantly lol

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55 minutes ago, jp157 said:

You should hear some of the younger officials irritation at the older officials who are out of date on rules getting grandfathered in while they’re getting reviewed constantly lol

oh... i talk to them...

and being me and not trying to make this reffing anything more than to help local athletes, i feel free to express exactly what i feel about specific refs...

there is one M1 from Nebraska that i would not even shake his hand if it was offered... i have seen that POS break procedure because he was tired and wanted to go home... seen him almost assault an athlete trying to big dik a kid, and then lay down like an absolute b!tch to david taylor at cadet team trials...

it was shameful...

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4 minutes ago, LJB said:

oh... i talk to them...

and being me and not trying to make this reffing anything more than to help local athletes, i feel free to express exactly what i feel about specific refs...

there is one M1 from Nebraska that i would not even shake his hand if it was offered... i have seen that POS break procedure because he was tired and wanted to go home... seen him almost assault an athlete trying to big dik a kid, and then lay down like an absolute b!tch to david taylor at cadet team trials...

it was shameful...

Is this the M1 who would call falls without confirmation a few months ago?

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12 minutes ago, jp157 said:

Is this the M1 who would call falls without confirmation a few months ago?

i can't say that for sure... that sounds like more of an M3 type of thing to do and based more off of learning and implementing proper procedure...

 

 

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5 minutes ago, LJB said:

i can't say that for sure... that sounds like more of an M3 type of thing to do and based more off of learning and implementing proper procedure...

 

 

It was an m1 grandfathered in. Not at all up to date on anything 

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1 minute ago, jp157 said:

It was an m1 grandfathered in. Not at all up to date on anything 

eh...

**shrugs**

i will take that type of mistake over ego getting in the way any time...

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8 minutes ago, LJB said:

eh...

**shrugs**

i will take that type of mistake over ego getting in the way any time...

Oh the ego came in. Especially once he was corrected by a younger official 

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3 hours ago, LJB said:

with the way real wrestling is interpreted, 3 man mechanics is almost required in any high level match... even then officials do not always get it right...

i was the judge on a mat about a month ago and called the points correctly, but, in video review the camera angle did not pick up the correct action and the call was overturned... i talked with our head official afterwards and explained the situation... but you can only do what you can do...

with that being said, we (USAW) have a ton of awful officials that we have to deal with because you just can not get people to go everywhere... i sat mat side of all the the cadet world team finals and was absolutely horrified who they had officiating and the constant issues because of that crew... point being, officials need to be criticized and held accountable... it is the only way to weed out the  chaff from the wheat... 

i had a UWW official try and tell me that you can't be passive on your feet in greco... this was several years ago, but, i will never look at that guy the same ever again...

i will say, sionce USAW has adopted the brick and coaches are no longer able to plead a case and it becomes a straight video reveiw, officials are no longer able to let their egos get in the way of getting the right call, so, it is improving...

So FS is supposedly much more objective than folk...

And yet you “need” 3 refs?

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7 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

So FS is supposedly much more objective than folk...

And yet you “need” 3 refs?

ugh...

passivity is more subjective than the **** style stalling BS...

that is all that has ever been said...

real wrestling is more complicated to interpret than lame meat head wrestling that promotes not wrestling, no creativity, and sloppy shots...

but...

nice try...

(not really)

 

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26 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

So FS is supposedly much more objective than folk...

And yet you “need” 3 refs?

The speed of the scenarios and the need for more viewpoints is why. In folk, you wouldn't score unless you held the opponent in position for a few seconds usually (hand down td aside). In FS you can score from a much less controlled situation as far as exposure is concerned. Ironically, tds in FS come with a stricter positioning but can come quicker.

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you have to have money to pay your refs, which, most wrestling federations do not have much of... 

i know what USAW actual operating budget was just a few years ago... you would probably be shocked at how small it actually is...

 

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1 hour ago, LJB said:

ugh...

passivity is more subjective than the **** style stalling BS...

that is all that has ever been said...

real wrestling is more complicated to interpret than lame meat head wrestling that promotes not wrestling, no creativity, and sloppy shots...

but...

nice try...

(not really)

 

So you are admitting that passivity is more subjective than stalling or do you mean objective?

But when you just alternate who you call passivity on, I guess that could be considered more objective...

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1 hour ago, LJB said:

ugh...

passivity is more subjective than the **** style stalling BS...

that is all that has ever been said...

real wrestling is more complicated to interpret than lame meat head wrestling that promotes not wrestling, no creativity, and sloppy shots...

but...

nice try...

(not really)

 

Don’t passivity and the current no-tie rules make it more open for corruption?  Referees actually have the power to dictate who will be at a disadvantage by simply picking a color, and shocker of shockers the higher seed always gets called for passivity first.

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