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TripNSweep

D1 schools that are D2 or D3 in other sports?

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12 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

Can somebody explain how this works? Could a school just be D1 in one sport like basketball but be D2 or D3 for everything else? What is the criteria exactly?

Yes they can, Johns Hopkins has done this with Lacrosse for decades.  I don’t know how it works, but I believe it comes down to practice time, coach/player interaction limitations, scholarship, and fundraising restrictions.  

For example, I remember as a d3 wrestling program we had to stay away from our coaches before Nov 1st, and couldn’t really do anything after the end of the season with them either.  Any workouts outside the season were “captains practices.” This may well be outdated at this point, but at the time it was pretty strictly enforced by our school.

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20.4.1 Multidivision Classification. A member of Division II or Division III may have a sport classified in Division I, provided the sport was so classified during the 2010-11 academic year. Such a classification shall continue until the institution fails to conduct the sport in Division I in any subsequent academic year.

 

Basically you have to be grandfathered in. Also, football and basketball cannot be the one sport. If you have D1 football or basketball, the whole school is D1. I believe you also have to follow the financial aid rules of the main division you're in, unless that was also grandfathered in, so you get Johns Hopkins lacrosse with scholarships but F&M wrestling without.

 

Edited to add: The DIII rules make it sound like schools can still apply to move one sport up for each gender, except football and basketball.

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8 hours ago, dman115 said:

Jesus...let's bring schools down so what???  Does that make you all feel better??

Not my intention. I think it’s impressive that a school like F&M has remained committed to the expense and challenge of wrestling “up”. So many schools have dropped the sport for a whole host of bogus reasons, and yet they have stayed true to their heritage and long tradition. Kudos to them.

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10 hours ago, Drew87 said:

Yes they can, Johns Hopkins has done this with Lacrosse for decades.  I don’t know how it works, but I believe it comes down to practice time, coach/player interaction limitations, scholarship, and fundraising restrictions.  

For example, I remember as a d3 wrestling program we had to stay away from our coaches before Nov 1st, and couldn’t really do anything after the end of the season with them either.  Any workouts outside the season were “captains practices.” This may well be outdated at this point, but at the time it was pretty strictly enforced by our school.

This sounds likely. My bet is the schools with mixed classifications probably offer schollies in their D1 sports and probably limited schollies in their D2 sports. 

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10 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

Can somebody explain how this works? Could a school just be D1 in one sport like basketball but be D2 or D3 for everything else? What is the criteria exactly?

No.

A school could not be D1 in basketball and D3 in other sports.  This is colloquially known as the “Dayton rule” after the University of Dayton which won the D3 football championship while playing D1 basketball.  

This resulted in schools like Georgetown, Davidson, and others having to move their whole athletic departments to D1 and lead to the creation of the Pioneer Football League which is a D1 football league that plays by D3 (non-scholarship) rules.  
 

Sports other than football and basketball could be grandfathered.  One sport per gender.  (Lock haven is wrestling and field hockey).  
 

If a school only has one sport “showcased” in D1 then they have an option of doing it for another sport at a later date for gender equity but otherwise no new programs can become D1 without the whole athletic department moving up.  

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52 minutes ago, ugarte said:

hockey has a number of schools operating in this rule as well 

Yes.  Ice hockey is the sport with the most D3 schools represented in D1.

But it should be noted that D2 schools playing ice hockey in D1 are not currently grandfathered under the rule.  There is not a NCAA Division-II championship because there aren't enough D2 ice hockey schools to meet the requirements to hold one.  As a result, all D2 schools are eligible for the D1 championship.  Only the NEC-10 school decline to participate in the D1 championships.  They consider themselves a D2 conference and hold their own conference championship and play out of conference games against D3 teams. 

Edited by Pinnum

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Not my intention. I think it’s impressive that a school like F&M has remained committed to the expense and challenge of wrestling “up”. So many schools have dropped the sport for a whole host of bogus reasons, and yet they have stayed true to their heritage and long tradition. Kudos to them.

Someone gave F&M $5 million several years ago, so their program is close to fully endowed. That should keep them in D1 for the Long haul I expect.

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45 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

For football what used to be called D1-AA, but now D1 FCS, must count the same as D1 without the qualifiers as schools like Villanova are D1 in basketball and D1 FCS in football.

This is the trophy they play for... 

NCAA-trophy.jpg

FBS schools opt out of the Division-I championship to play in their own bowl games.

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1 hour ago, Pinnum said:

This is the trophy they play for... 

NCAA-trophy.jpg

FBS schools opt out of the Division-I championship to play in their own bowl games.

Good one. That's like saying if you won the intra-mural football championship at Alabama that you are the best team at the school.

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On 6/5/2021 at 3:38 PM, IronChef said:

DIII Union College beat Minnesota in the 2014 D1 hockey finals even though they are non-scholarship.

They are DI in hockey.

Are they non-scholarship?

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You can be D1 in some sports and not others. Not sure if football fits that bill, but to be D1 in football I believe you have to have a stadium that seats 35000, so that probably means they're a big school and would be D1 across the board.

Northern Arizona University is D1 in basketball and Cross Country (they have won many national championships), but D2 in football and other sports.

On 6/5/2021 at 6:57 AM, Pinnum said:

No.

A school could not be D1 in basketball and D3 in other sports.  This is colloquially known as the “Dayton rule” after the University of Dayton which won the D3 football championship while playing D1 basketball.  

This resulted in schools like Georgetown, Davidson, and others having to move their whole athletic departments to D1 and lead to the creation of the Pioneer Football League which is a D1 football league that plays by D3 (non-scholarship) rules.  
 

Sports other than football and basketball could be grandfathered.  One sport per gender.  (Lock haven is wrestling and field hockey).  
 

If a school only has one sport “showcased” in D1 then they have an option of doing it for another sport at a later date for gender equity but otherwise no new programs can become D1 without the whole athletic department moving up.  

 

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15 minutes ago, wjd said:

You can be D1 in some sports and not others. Not sure if football fits that bill, but to be D1 in football I believe you have to have a stadium that seats 35000, so that probably means they're a big school and would be D1 across the board.

Northern Arizona University is D1 in basketball and Cross Country (they have won many national championships), but D2 in football and other sports.

 

Northern Arizona is not D2 in any sports. They are in the Big Sky Conference. If your basketball team is D1, you are D1 in everything, as stated earlier in the thread. You should go back and read it.

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