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21 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

I anticipate a healthy Imar will continue to beat Nolf. 79 WTT should be a good benchmark.

A healthy IMar, perhaps.  We haven't seen a healthy IMar in a while.

19 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

IMar?  

Not the IMar that got stuck in his last match.  Nolf beats that IMar.

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3 hours ago, treep2000 said:

I really enjoyed the "Cox is the best P4P in the United States era".... I imagine that thread will start soon, or something similar.  

He absolutely didn't come out with Soul-crushing energy or drive.  That superman "tackle" and miss was interesting too.  

Isn't this his first competition in some time?  Maybe it's "rust".  Maybe something else.  I don't know, but from what I saw, Cox either dropped down back into the pack at 92kg, or the rest of the world caught up.  Maybe a little of both.  

A Cox/Sadulaev match would now be laughable based on what we just saw.  Sad would tech him.  Cox at 97kg, in general, seems increasingly difficult, given the IRI top 2, Sad, Snyder, and the rest of that top Tier.  

The Mizzou hype train was very supportive obviously, but this is the same dude who had nail biters every year to make 86kg, and he made the choice to go 86 instead of 97 after spending all of college at 197.  

He’s asked a lot of his body, but in hindsight I don’t see anything that smells like real, long-term, planned, executed annual training cycles.  He was a bit of a surprise team member at 86kg, had very little competition at 92kg, and for some reason is back at 92 again after missing at 97 for trials.  Dude is a good wrestler, but from the looks of this, is completely driven by emotion.  He’s getting pretty long in the tooth to be riding the emotion train for energy.  Many of the very good ones in many sports can do it for a while, but they all either evolve mentally or burn out.  

No doubt the mental boogeyman came home to roost for him today.  His first tournament back, already looking at 2024 when this year’s olympics haven't even been wrestled yet, and cutting a bunch of weight.  That is a long dark hallway to be staring into in your own head.

A good J’den is a marvel to watch, and elevates everyone, but he needs guidance.  Can someone get him Terry Brands’ number PLEASE!

Edited by Drew87

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Seems like people are crapping on J'den for his fanbase right about now.  Adjust your expectations to what he's given us in his international career and you'll be more realistic to what you should be expecting.

He had ONE dominant year.  Every other year, including the year he first won worlds, he has wrestled close matches with people he shouldn't be wrestling close matches with.  He even lost matches that when we looked back at (after he won both of his world titles) where we were like 'wtf happened here?' so... calm the storm folks.  He'll be fine.  He'll probably win worlds again.

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1 hour ago, Drew87 said:

The Mizzou hype train was very supportive obviously, but this is the same dude who had nail biters every year to make 86kg, and he made the choice to go 86 instead of 97 after spending all of college at 197.  

He’s asked a lot of his body, but in hindsight I don’t see anything that smells like real, long-term, planned, executed annual training cycles.  He was a bit of a surprise team member at 86kg, had very little competition at 92kg, and for some reason is back at 92 again after missing at 97 for trials.  Dude is a good wrestler, but from the looks of this, is completely driven by emotion.  He’s getting pretty long in the tooth to be riding the emotion train for energy.  Many of the very good ones in many sports can do it for a while, but they all either evolve mentally or burn out.  

No doubt the mental boogeyman came home to roost for him today.  His first tournament back, already looking at 2024 when this year’s olympics haven't even been wrestled yet, and cutting a bunch of weight.  That is a long dark hallway to be staring into in your own head.

A good J’den is a marvel to watch, and elevates everyone, but he needs guidance.  Can someone get him Terry Brands’ number PLEASE!

Truly startling that you were able to deduce all of this.  Completely driven by emotion... boogeyman came home to roost... staring down a long dark hallway?  

Missing weight was inexcusable, no question about that.  

But to belittle his accomplishments and his commitment because he dropped a match at the... let me check my notes... Ziolkowski, Pytlasinski
Memorial Poland Open? It's a bit ridiculous.  This dude has never come back from the Olympics or World Championships empty handed.  

And if Cox is "long in the tooth," then what exactly is David Taylor?  I would ask the same question about Dake if he wasn't aging in reverse.  

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

Seems like people are crapping on J'den for his fanbase right about now.  Adjust your expectations to what he's given us in his international career and you'll be more realistic to what you should be expecting.

He had ONE dominant year.  Every other year, including the year he first won worlds, he has wrestled close matches with people he shouldn't be wrestling close matches with.  He even lost matches that when we looked back at (after he won both of his world titles) where we were like 'wtf happened here?' so... calm the storm folks.  He'll be fine.  He'll probably win worlds again.

Yeah but the ONE dominant year was the last year of competition, so that's why expectations are sky high.

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26 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Truly startling that you were able to deduce all of this.  Completely driven by emotion... boogeyman came home to roost... staring down a long dark hallway?  

Missing weight was inexcusable, no question about that.  

But to belittle his accomplishments and his commitment because he dropped a match at the... let me check my notes... Ziolkowski, Pytlasinski
Memorial Poland Open? It's a bit ridiculous.  This dude has never come back from the Olympics or World Championships empty handed.  

And if Cox is "long in the tooth," then what exactly is David Taylor?  I would ask the same question about Dake if he wasn't aging in reverse.  

It wasn’t meant to be insulting, it was meant as a sports psychology observation.  If you’ve never personally experienced a seriously disappointing, season-ending loss, it might not make sense to you.  Similarly, if you haven’t had many years of big weight cuts, what I’m referring to might not immediately make sense.

I am not always a proponent of FLO stuff, but they do document and profile athletes VERY well.  The J’den Cox and Terry Brands profiles are required watching to understand what I’m talking about.

And I’m not belittling his accomplishments, they are fantastic.  I am being critical of what appears to be a haphazard approach to planning and weight management.  It has been acknowledged in the past, on FRL if I recall correctly, that in college J’den would have frosted flakes with chocolate milk for lunch.  That is not all THAT uncommon.  But it is unsustainable.  Similarly, everyone comes to wrestling from a different place. For some it is a game, for some it is a challenge, for some it is an outlet, for some it is an identity.  

J’den wrestles with heart and emotion, he is not a robot.  He has had some very emotionally charged things to say recently.   Terry Brands is/was the same way.  Terry also had some serious soul searching to do post ‘96 trials. 

I care about wrestling and wrestlers, J’den looks like he is running himself hard and may be nearing the end of his current rope.  Successive disappointments amidst such tremendous turmoil necessitates introspection and revision.  It’s just part of polishing the stone.

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Yianni beats grigorev 7-4.  Didn't see the first minute of the match, but Yianni was up 3-0.  Lots of attempts from Yianni, but he's extended on the single a lot.  I believe all four points from Poland were step outs. 

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2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Seems like people are crapping on J'den for his fanbase right about now.  Adjust your expectations to what he's given us in his international career and you'll be more realistic to what you should be expecting.

He had ONE dominant year.  Every other year, including the year he first won worlds, he has wrestled close matches with people he shouldn't be wrestling close matches with.  He even lost matches that when we looked back at (after he won both of his world titles) where we were like 'wtf happened here?' so... calm the storm folks.  He'll be fine.  He'll probably win worlds again.

Please don't characterize J'den or Mizzou's fanbase as one or two bitter Mizzou fans and anyone who thinks J'den should've been allowed to wrestle in the trials. That does not necessarily represent us all! It is interesting though how everyone triggered by those few people has turned into a movement of taking potshots at J'den whenever they can. 

Edited by Stl

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4 hours ago, spladle08 said:

Yeah shouldn't be any drama
Zare and Chamizo

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.
 

Zare and Hosseinkhani* 

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5 hours ago, klehner said:

Cox had his opponent on the ground, dove on top of him...and missed.  Don't know if I've ever seen that happen before.  Just completely flew over him.

Dake vs. Howe that one time. Probably the craziest escape from a sure TD I have ever seen.

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Cox didn't even bother wrestling the bronze match? What's the point of coming if you're not going to wrestle 

FWIW, the Ukrainian that beat Cox lost in the final 12-3 to Poland

Edited by The Genius

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8 minutes ago, Stl said:

Please don't characterize J'den or Mizzou's fanbase as one or two bitter Mizzou fans and anyone who thinks J'den should've been allowed to wrestle in the trials. That does not necessarily represent us all! It is interesting though how everyone triggered by those few people has turned into a movement of taking potshots at J'den whenever they can. 

As much as I love J'Den, he certainly didn't help the situation with some of his comments and actions after the missed weight debacle. 

I hope he puts that all behind him and wins the Worlds in October.

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I have not been happy with J'den missing weight and then complaining about it.  And then to run off at the mouth about how he is going to take what is his etc etc . And then to lose at Poland right afterwards?  I think he was emotional and I think he will be just fine at Worlds.  Perhaps he didn't wrestle for third because he was too disappointed at having lost.  Maybe he is taking that time for introspection now and injury risk avoidance.  I hope so.  Because he is not looking like the world beater he was claiming he was. 

mspart

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30 minutes ago, Stl said:

Please don't characterize J'den or Mizzou's fanbase as one or two bitter Mizzou fans and anyone who thinks J'den should've been allowed to wrestle in the trials. That does not necessarily represent us all! It is interesting though how everyone triggered by those few people has turned into a movement of taking potshots at J'den whenever they can. 

J'Dens quotes haven't helped much either.

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3 minutes ago, mspart said:

I have not been happy with J'den missing weight and then complaining about it.  And then to run off at the mouth about how he is going to take what is his etc etc . And then to lose at Poland right afterwards?  I think he was emotional and I think he will be just fine at Worlds.  Perhaps he didn't wrestle for third because he was too disappointed at having lost.  Maybe he is taking that time for introspection now and injury risk avoidance.  I hope so.  Because he is not looking like the world beater he was claiming he was. 

mspart

Something is off, easy to ignore when he is winning but...

Says he could go either weight, then later says he was so whipped at the olympic weigh in that Saduleav was worried....tells story about KJ completely flipping his mindset on which weight to go because he is chasing greatness, in the same breath that he is going back to 92....missing weight...skipping this bronze medal match....seems to bounce around training wise....I think that backstage is way crazier than the anyone is letting on.

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