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8 hours ago, nom said:

Dake vs Chamizo is interesting.  Any think that Dake is perhaps a bit cautious in first meetings but once has feel, some specific training, turns it up?

thinking of the Russian he lost to and then teched at worlds

 Nolf first match was kinda close for a bit then he wipes the mat with him at OTT

wondering if any kinda pattern here

I think if Dake catches Chamizo first round, he is in trouble. 

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chamizo's last match with dake Chamizo was a true 50/50 bout and frankly Chamizo really had better attacks

Dake being so much better than everyone I can't get down with quite yet - the burroughs matchup at team trials actually looked kinda similar to prior meetings I thought JB had deeper attacks, got to his offense better Dake just made an adjustment on his leg defense by squatting down and that was a huuge adjustment that decided the match.

Dake is still playing the conservative defensive game too much for my liking for the talent he has to do more on offense and that leaves scores close and can get you burned at the world stage. Dake is generating so many points off upper body throws, defense but maybe shortchanging his ability to get to the leg.. He got to Cox's legs and finished in pretty big moments few years ago sticks in my mind.

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6 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

chamizo's last match with dake Chamizo was a true 50/50 bout and frankly Chamizo really had better attacks

Dake being so much better than everyone I can't get down with quite yet - the burroughs matchup at team trials actually looked kinda similar to prior meetings I thought JB had deeper attacks, got to his offense better Dake just made an adjustment on his leg defense by squatting down and that was a huuge adjustment that decided the match.

Dake is still playing the conservative defensive game too much for my liking for the talent he has to do more on offense and that leaves scores close and can get you burned at the world stage. Dake is generating so many points off upper body throws, defense but maybe shortchanging his ability to get to the leg.. He got to Cox's legs and finished in pretty big moments few years ago sticks in my mind.

I disagree, only in that Dake has wholly put together the entire package. He has always been a defensive wrestler based in sound-position first and foremost which is the base to success on the international level. The key to his continued growth is that he has added to offensive repetoire and has a number of offensive attacks, reattacks, and defense-into-offensive counters that frankly he needed international reps in order to hone. He has them all in his bag of tricks now, and I think that if he is behind late that he has the short offense to gut out the gritty wins. Don't forget that just two years ago he shutout the world on the way to gold.

Edited by bnwtwg
comma comma comma chameleon

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10 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

I disagree, only in that Dake has wholly put together the entire package. He has always been a defensive wrestler based in sound-position first and foremost which is the base to success on the international level. The key to his continued growth is that he has added to offensive repetoire and has a number of offensive attacks, reattacks, and defense-into-offensive counters that frankly he needed international reps in order to hone. He has them all in his bag of tricks now, and I think that if he is behind late that he has the short offense to gut out the gritty wins. Don't forget that just two years ago he shutout the world on the way to gold.

I agree with most everything you said, but the last sentence gives me pause:  What weight di he shut out the world at?  And who is favored to win that weight in Tokyo?

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1 hour ago, AHamilton said:

I agree with most everything you said, but the last sentence gives me pause:  What weight di he shut out the world at?  And who is favored to win that weight in Tokyo?

Ehh I put less stock into the olympic vs non-olympic weights. Not a wrestler's fault that they are a tweener with 20ish pound jumps between Oly classes.

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11 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Ehh I put less stock into the olympic vs non-olympic weights. Not a wrestler's fault that they are a tweener with 20ish pound jumps between Oly classes.

You might not put stock in it, but do you want to know who does?  Chamizo.  He said so before the match.  Also JB has said so as well.

Actually a lot of countries put stock in it.  Cuba often doesn't enter non-Olympic weights in tournaments.  I'm sure plenty of other countries severely under-prioritize said weights.

Not a wrestlers fault, but it seems a lot of wrestlers and countries put a lot of stock in it.  Also, lets not forget why Dake was at 79 kg and why JB is at 79 kg now.

It is definitely unfortunate, but 79 kg was nowhere near as competitive as 74.

Edited by AHamilton

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3 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

Ehh I put less stock into the olympic vs non-olympic weights. Not a wrestler's fault that they are a tweener with 20ish pound jumps between Oly classes.

 

3 hours ago, AHamilton said:

You might not put stock in it, but do you want to know who does?  Chamizo.  He said so before the match.  Also JB has said so as well.

Actually a lot of countries put stock in it.  Cuba often doesn't enter non-Olympic weights in tournaments.  I'm sure plenty of other countries severely under-prioritize said weights.

Not a wrestlers fault, but it seems a lot of wrestlers and countries put a lot of stock in it.  Also, lets not forget why Dake was at 79 kg and why JB is at 79 kg now.

It is definitely unfortunate, but 79 kg was nowhere near as competitive as 74.

And this was exactly my point. I think Dake is just as good at 74 as he was at 79. But he'll be facing much better competition at 74, so he'll likely not look as dominant. We've already seen it once with Chamizo. I'd expect extremely tight matches with Chamizo, Sidakov, etc...

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3 hours ago, AHamilton said:

You might not put stock in it, but do you want to know who does?  Chamizo.  He said so before the match.  Also JB has said so as well.

Actually a lot of countries put stock in it.  Cuba often doesn't enter non-Olympic weights in tournaments.  I'm sure plenty of other countries severely under-prioritize said weights.

Not a wrestlers fault, but it seems a lot of wrestlers and countries put a lot of stock in it.  Also, lets not forget why Dake was at 79 kg and why JB is at 79 kg now.

It is definitely unfortunate, but 79 kg was nowhere near as competitive as 74.

I am not disputing your conclusion, but I wonder why they do it. A world medal is a world medal. Why would they rather win at an Olympic weight in a non-Olympic year?

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4 minutes ago, NJDan said:

I am not disputing your conclusion, but I wonder why they do it. A world medal is a world medal. Why would they rather win at an Olympic weight in a non-Olympic year?

Pride must be a part of it.  "This is MY weight."

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13 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I slap myself for thinking he actually might've been our best shot against Sadulaev. Worlds apart.

The only person I see at 97 giving Sad a run for his money now is Mohammadian. Otherwise don't see much else in terms of challenge

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I think Mirikitani put it best on his podcast. Most of the world sees the non Olympic weights as basically JV. 
 

or in ‘Merican terms… an Alabama state title 

“good job buddy, it is something to be proud of but it’s not as great as your parents want to think it is”

Edited by jp157
Clarifying

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1 hour ago, NJDan said:

I am not disputing your conclusion, but I wonder why they do it. A world medal is a world medal. Why would they rather win at an Olympic weight in a non-Olympic year?

Guys want to establish themselves at the weight they plan on winning the Olympics at. And because they all want to do that, it makes those weights significantly more difficult than the non-olympic weights and therefore more prestigious.

 

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The same Mohammadian who was gifted two criteria wins just two days ago?
That dude is the best wrestler on the planet against non-iranian wrestlers .

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.

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8 hours ago, Uwwdoc said:

The only person I see at 97 giving Sad a run for his money now is Mohammadian. Otherwise don't see much else in terms of challenge

How much are you willing to wager? I will put up anything for Sad to run the table and that includes my framed PD2 I.O.U. bet. But you better believe I’ll be rooting like hell for Snyder to climb back to the top.

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A buddy and I discussed it last night and I expected Helen to lose badly but I wasn't sure exactly how badly..... Woke up to see 13-0 and It stinks.

I was thinking she'd prove me wrong and lose by 4 or something.

Eh well. Still love her

 

*I think I thought she still had medal potential just not Gold, now I'm questioning that. Hope we get a decent draw

 

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.

 

 

 

 

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Looked like Helen had some words for the Nigerian wrestler after their match....After getting beaten like that, anytime the loser talks, it never comes off as anything more than bad sportsmanship.  Hope I am misinterpreting this because I have never seen her act that way.

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Looked like Helen had some words for the Nigerian wrestler after their match....After getting beaten like that, anytime the loser talks, it never comes off as anything more than bad sportsmanship.  Hope I am misinterpreting this because I have never seen her act that way.

At first I thought it was something positive "you've really improved" -esque... But seeing her push Adekuoroye away as she goes in for the hug, make me think she's just sour grapes about getting throttled.

 

For those who haven't watched

 

 

 

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, spladle08 said:

At first I thought it was something positive "you've really improved" -esque... But seeing her push Adekuoroye away as she goes in for the hug, make me think she's just sour grapes about getting throttled.

 

For those who haven't watched

 

 

 

 

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.

 

 

 

 

 

Earlier in the match when Adekuoroye drives her out of bounds for a contested +4 (3:47) Helen takes a swat at her head too.....not a good look across the board.

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Earlier in the match when Adekuoroye drives her out of bounds for a contested +4 (3:47) Helen takes a swat at her head too.....not a good look across the board.

Yeah, Helen was inviting those early "headbutts" cause she's standing forehead to forehead...

That Burroughs double she hits her with where she keeps her head up and Helen doesn't move her face, lol that's on her...

Each time she touched her face, head, hand, and acted like she was just wronged towards the ref... Bad look... I just re-watched and cry baby antics + refusing to shake hands... I'm getting further off the Helen bus.

Admittedly though I'm as big an Adekuoroye fan as I am Chamizo, so grain of salt

 

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

Yeah, Helen was inviting those early "headbutts" cause she's standing forehead to forehead...
That Burroughs double she hits her with where she keeps her head up and Helen doesn't move her face, lol that's on her...
Each time she touched her face, head, hand, and acted like she was just wronged towards the ref... Bad look... I just re-watched and cry baby antics + refusing to shake hands... I'm getting further of the Helen bus.
Admittedly though I'm as big an Adekuoroye fan as I am Chamizo, so grain of salt

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.
 

I hear ya, I'm going to try to suspend anymore judgement until I see video of the other match that she lost.  I hope she took that loss a little more graciously...but if it was more of the same? Yikes.  Again, I can't remember ever seeing that kind of stuff out of her in the past?

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I hear ya, I'm going to try to suspend anymore judgement until I see video of the other match that she lost.  I hope she took that loss a little more graciously...but if it was more of the same? Yikes.  Again, I can't remember ever seeing that kind of stuff out of her in the past?

Well she was always chasing medals, won that worlds easily, then reached the highest of heights at Rio, took one more victory lap to a world title up a weight in Paris, (and she always won, for a long stretch).... then concussion stuff, larger than life brand (for a woman wrestler especially), guest appearances, yadda yadda yadda... She took the Henry Cejudo path to being less competitive, while Adekuoroye (and the rest of the pack) stayed on that Clubber Lang diet.

It's gotta be frustrating getting rag-dolled like that but you'd think she'd know what's up... The match was close when Helen was in prime form.... Eh well maybe this tournament will spark her to do something great come the Olympics, or maybe she will be shocked at how far behind she is and an Injury will pop up.... We will see

 

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.

 

 

 

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