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Musukaev defeats Yanni @ Poland

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53 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

What about Secretary of the Treasury?  How about UWW?

I once knew a person who asked to be called "Bluegrass" in a professional setting.  His name, coincidentally, was also "John."  I called him John.

The best thing to do in a situation like that is to say sorry so-and-so is already nicknamed "bluegrass" and just call someone else that for a few weeks.

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ugh...

just listening to FRL and those guys complaining about the calls in the match and they are just adding to the confusion because they don't understand the rules and how they are called either...

makes me crazy...

and it probably shouldn't...

i only know how the exchanges are called because i am involved and have conversations with high ranking refs who are in constant communication with each other and have a rules meeting before every tourney...

i would be in the dark as much as they and the average bbs poster if i did not make a consistent effort to keep up...

i will say, i never see askren at the coaches meetings pre-tourneys with the head official...

**shrugs**

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3 minutes ago, LJB said:

ugh...

just listening to FRL and those guys complaining about the calls in the match and they are just adding to the confusion because they don't understand the rules and how they are called either...

makes me crazy...

and it probably shouldn't...

i only know how the exchanges are called because i am involved and have conversations with high ranking refs who are in constant communication with each other and have a rules meeting before every tourney...

i would be in the dark as much as they and the average bbs poster if i did not make a consistent effort to keep up...

i will say, i never see askren at the coaches meetings pre-tourneys with the head official...

**shrugs**

This was pretty sad, from one of last weeks frl episodes:  Askren did not know the high school folkstyle nearfall criteria (nor did anyone else.) They were looking at an image of someone in a high bridge and saying that "he's not even giving up near fall points!"  Ben said (more than once) that a wrestler's back needs to be within four inches of the mat to earn points.  Wrong.  Being held in a high bridge is also one of the criteria.  How someone can coach wrestling professionally and not know the near fall criteria is crazy.  And I am a fan of Askren and think he is a great coach.

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47 minutes ago, LJB said:

ugh...

just listening to FRL and those guys complaining about the calls in the match and they are just adding to the confusion because they don't understand the rules and how they are called either...

makes me crazy...

and it probably shouldn't...

i only know how the exchanges are called because i am involved and have conversations with high ranking refs who are in constant communication with each other and have a rules meeting before every tourney...

i would be in the dark as much as they and the average bbs poster if i did not make a consistent effort to keep up...

i will say, i never see askren at the coaches meetings pre-tourneys with the head official...

**shrugs**

so the 4 for Musukaev was correct?

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36 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

so the 4 for Musukaev was correct?

before i answer that...

why don't you explain to the peanut gallery what the rule is for 4 vs 2 vs 1 in the scenario that played out...

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1 hour ago, LJB said:

before i answer that...

why don't you explain to the peanut gallery what the rule is for 4 vs 2 vs 1 in the scenario that played out...

I said when I asked the first time that I don’t know the rule.   What is the rule? (And was it the correct call?)

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Rule:

When one of the wrestlers steps on the passivity zone for the first time the referee is obliged to warn them (blue zone / red zone). Wrestlers are obligated to return to the center of the mat. If wrestlers do not obey this command and step on the mat with 3 feet in the passivity zone, the referee must stop the bout and bring back the wrestlers in the center of the mat. If it’s an attacking move, the points will be given to the attacking wrestler for the action, even if legs of both wrestlers are in the orange zone or if one or both legs of the defending wrestler are on the protection area. No counter action performed on the protective area will be admitted and awarded.

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Musukaev is so good at reattacking your trail leg.  Does it for that first score and does it later in the match as well.  Yianni is actually very good at it as well but Musukaev is even faster than Yianni so it's even more effective for him.  Great match imo.  If what Mus did in that match wasn't being passive it should be.  Yianni had to chase the guy around the mat nearly the entire match and took nearly every attack.

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Musukaev is so good at reattacking your trail leg.  Does it for that first score and does it later in the match as well.  Yianni is actually very good at it as well but Musukaev is even faster than Yianni so it's even more effective for him.  Great match imo.  If what Mus did in that match wasn't being passive it should be.  Yianni had to chase the guy around the mat nearly the entire match and took nearly every attack.
Mus hates exerting himself.
I'm super confident he's going to come out with a gas-tank at the Olympics and light some people up, but (other than those big events) I seldom expect him to finish a tournament if he has a tough match before the finals

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.

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22 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

Mus hates exerting himself.
I'm super confident he's going to come out with a gas-tank at the Olympics and light some people up, but (other than those big events) I seldom expect him to finish a tournament if he has a tough match before the finals

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.
 

How are you so confident that will happen? Lol, I would love to see it but if I recall he didn't have a tank at worlds either although he managed to get bronze. 

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How are you so confident that will happen? Lol, I would love to see it but if I recall he didn't have a tank at worlds either although he managed to get bronze. 
Do I remember it incorrectly?
I thought he looked great at worlds.
Didn't he shut down basically everyone he wrestled?
He held Rashidov to like 3 or 4 points in a 1 point loss in the semis then came back and beat Otoguro by a takedown but also shut him down (4-2 or something like that).
I would look it up but busy ...
Either way, he had a pretty tough draw (as I remember ) and going out on a limb but I think held everyone below 5pts and blew a couple guys out of the water...

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.

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1 minute ago, spladle08 said:

Do I remember it incorrectly?
I thought he looked great at worlds.
Didn't he shut down basically everyone he wrestled?
He held Rashidov to like 3 or 4 points in a 1 point loss in the semis then came back and beat Otoguro by a takedown but also shut him down (4-2 or something like that).
I would look it up but busy ...
Either way, he had a pretty tough draw (as I remember ) and going out on a limb but I think held everyone below 5pts and blew a couple guys out of the water...

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.
 

He looked very good (way better than he did in Poland) but his gas tank was still pretty bad if I remember right. I clearly recall that he took multiple breaks against a Turk that he was far better than. I do think he'll look better in Tokyo but I doubt we ever see him without his antics to get a breather. He is extremely dangerous and not a guy anyone is going to want to draw, though. 

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He looked very good (way better than he did in Poland) but his gas tank was still pretty bad if I remember right. I clearly recall that he took multiple breaks against a Turk that he was far better than. I do think he'll look better in Tokyo but I doubt we ever see him without his antics to get a breather. He is extremely dangerous and not a guy anyone is going to want to draw, though. 
Yeah maybe "a tank" was an exaggeration....
"I fully expect him to manage matches better" is probably how I should've worded it.



If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.

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7 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I said when I asked the first time that I don’t know the rule.   What is the rule? (And was it the correct call?)

the rule as of this year is that if the back exposes at any time during the throw then it is a 4...

free also has adopted the correct throw as of 2019...

did yianni's back expose at the very beginning of the action?

it is quite possible that it did, but, the camera angle could not have been worse for a viewer to say with 100% certainty... 

if i had the whistle i would have offered 2 for correct throw based off of what i saw on the replay...

did they have a different angle to review?

it is quite possible...

but askren just sounded like some of our more "esteemed" posters here on the bbs by blathering on about landing on his belly when that has absolutely no bearing on the call...

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21 minutes ago, LJB said:

the rule as of this year is that if the back exposes at any time during the throw then it is a 4...

free also has adopted the correct throw as of 2019...

did yianni's back expose at the very beginning of the action?

it is quite possible that it did, but, the camera angle could not have been worse for a viewer to say with 100% certainty... 

if i had the whistle i would have offered 2 for correct throw based off of what i saw on the replay...

did they have a different angle to review?

it is quite possible...

but askren just sounded like some of our more "esteemed" posters here on the bbs by blathering on about landing on his belly when that has absolutely no bearing on the call...

Thank you.  But didn’t Askren specifically say that he knew it didn’t matter how Yianni landed?  I thought he was more upset that “he wasn’t close to exposing his back.”    I thought he didn’t either, but it was close.

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Thank you.  But didn’t Askren specifically say that he knew it didn’t matter how Yianni landed?  I thought he was more upset that “he wasn’t close to exposing his back.”    I thought he didn’t either, but it was close.

he said several times if they can't see he landed on his belly then they should not be reffing...

landing in danger does not mean anything anymore and he doesn't know it because he can't be bothered to actually keep up with the rules...

same with the yianni's phantom 4 that never was... that one was ridiculously easy to call as per the rules, but, most would rather complain and not actually keep up...

this is not a unique occurrence... 

it annoys me when anonymous poster's here do it... it absolutely pains me to listen to people actually heavily involved in the sport look like a jackass...

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6 hours ago, LJB said:

he said several times if they can't see he landed on his belly then they should not be reffing...

landing in danger does not mean anything anymore and he doesn't know it because he can't be bothered to actually keep up with the rules...

same with the yianni's phantom 4 that never was... that one was ridiculously easy to call as per the rules, but, most would rather complain and not actually keep up...

this is not a unique occurrence... 

it annoys me when anonymous poster's here do it... it absolutely pains me to listen to people actually heavily involved in the sport look like a jackass...

I'm happy enough when people talking about it can name a non american wrestler besides sadulaev and chamizo. The turk, the Russian, the other Russian? Could be a long reigning olympic champ ,  nope doesn't deserve a name just a generic "the russian".

I don't get why they do this.  Some of these people can list off 30 American wrestlers from a weight class at a given time but they can't bother to remember what Geno's name is? 

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I'm happy enough when people talking about it can name a non american wrestler besides sadulaev and chamizo. The turk, the Russian, the other Russian? Could be a long reigning olympic champ ,  nope doesn't deserve a name just a generic "the russian".
I don't get why they do this.  Some of these people can list off 30 American wrestlers from a weight class at a given time but they can't bother to remember what Geno's name is? 
This bothers me also. Sometimes it just feels like they're naming a historically tough country and hoping they have a solid rep that year...

It feels like (recently) they've asked Mike Mal to sit down each day for 15minutes to review a few stats they put together for him, then try to form it into a coherent preview of an Olympic weight...

I've seen a few of these lately.... I appreciate the effort but I wonder how hard it would be for them to just employ somebody who keeps up with international wrestling

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.

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19 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

This bothers me also. Sometimes it just feels like they're naming a historically tough country and hoping they have a solid rep that year...

It feels like (recently) they've asked Mike Mal to sit down each day for 15minutes to review a few stats they put together for him, then try to form it into a coherent preview of an Olympic weight...

I've seen a few of these lately.... I appreciate the effort but I wonder how hard it would be for them to just employ somebody who keeps up with international wrestling

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.
 

I don't know if some of them feel they are being patriotic and by using the national designation  they are playing their part in the us vs them team culture of wrestling, but it just comes  off like you don't care when you don't know names. And if  the people commentating  on int wresting sound like they don't care  why should  anyone. 

Boxing doesn't do this. American analysts  don't call fury  "the Brit" when they talk Wilder . MMA's big fight wasn't the the russian vs the irishman.  

And if you really don't know and your going to talk about some big int tourney on video . Take a minute and wiki it, do some prep. Know the names of the favorite and maybe 4-5 challengers. Look at what they've done recently, some accomplishments. Maybe even learn insights into their personality or quirks. Its fine if you don't know some random African qualifier or a out of nowhere  rep with zero int exp . But don't talk about "the Russian" combine three different people into this "Russian", and get basic facts horribly wrong while  saying uh a lot . 

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If a guy like Askren, who has competed at the highest level and is still extensively involved in the sport doesn’t understand the rules, perhaps that’s a rule problem. From looking at the UWW rule book, it’s not very specific. I understand refs meet and clarify these things but why not clearly define everything with words in the rule book?

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21 hours ago, LJB said:

he said several times if they can't see he landed on his belly then they should not be reffing...

landing in danger does not mean anything anymore and he doesn't know it because he can't be bothered to actually keep up with the rules...

same with the yianni's phantom 4 that never was... that one was ridiculously easy to call as per the rules, but, most would rather complain and not actually keep up...

this is not a unique occurrence... 

it annoys me when anonymous poster's here do it... it absolutely pains me to listen to people actually heavily involved in the sport look like a jackass...

Yeah from what I gather there shouldn’t be much debate about the Yianni phantom 4. Although was that the one where Askren was claiming “there was no rule” for?

But I was more concerned with the 4 that Musukaev got.  Especially since it resulted in another 1 for a failed challenge.

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