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flyingcement

Wrestling Subscription Advice

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I am a new poster on the board although I had wrestled from age seven through 19.  I lost touch with the sport during and after college, unfortunately.  Oddly, I was brought back to the sport because of COVID - the lack of sports that were ongoing.  I thought - well what can I relate to that I don't know the results of?  I started with the 2019 NCAA wrestling championship videos on youtube and worked backwards. 

I think I have seen pretty much every NCAA wrestling match that is up on Youtube over the least ten years or so.  I'm not in a position to spend a lot of money with young kids and lots of expenses.  I'm curious as I've seen people chat about the different sites - what would be a good starting point you would recommend for someone who wanted to choose only one subscription?  I am looking for match footage first and foremost.  

Many thanks for your thoughts.  

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Despite their flaws, flowrestling remains the premiere source of wrestling content - match footage included. You do have the to pay upfront however, which I think is still $150. That's more expensive than the up and comer, rokfin, will cost you, but there is just no comparison. With flo, you have access to, what, like 10 years of archived footage?

 

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I have Flo, Rokfin, and Intermat.  To me, they're worth it, each one of them.  If I had to put them in order, right now?  Throwing moralities out the window?  It's still even there.  Roll a dice.  

Flo has the most content(currently) at $150 for the year up front($12.50 a month end-cost).

Intermat is improving more and more under the guidance of Willie.  I expect more content as well as an increase in cost (eventually).  Not sure how their streaming plan/options are going to look in the future.  Perhaps @Husker_Du can educate us.  $40 a year ($3.33 a month end-cost).

Rokfin @ $9.99 a month.  Rokfin was easily the best, but since NCAA season started the content has leveled out a bit to make it rather even for the cost.

Intermat at $40 makes that a no-brainer, looking at it honestly.

Trackwrestling at $50 per year is also not bad, but their future/intent is clouded for me right now.  I don't know what to expect going forward being as Flo bought them out.

SO!

In hindsight:
Intermat first.
Flip a coin for Rokfin/Flo
If you're trusting that track is going to maintain current content for free or make more behind a paywall(like Flo) I would do track at $50 before Flo at $150 and do a Rokfin at $10 per month.

SO!!

 

In summary, after re-reading my rants/raves:

Get all four.

If getting three, get Intermat, Rokfin, Flo

If getting two, get Intermat, Flo

If getting one, and willing to spend $150, right now it is Flo.  My opinion may change and if money is a concern for now, Intermat is the way to go, and the price option of monthly for Rokfin plust $90 for Track/Intermat total for a year is  the easier option.  Me, personally, I factor in moralities and will put Intermat and Rokfin ahead of Flo every time, if it comes down to that sort of cancel-culture mentality taking a priority in decision making.

Sorry to be all over, but these are ramblings.

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1 hour ago, IronChef said:

If you want to watch the most high level wrestling, and it sounds like that's what you want, get Flo. They have more college stuff and have the international stuff moving forward. 

Also, Track is $129.99 per year, not $50 as stated above.  

Is track going to exist anymore?

 

Flo bought them out three of for months ago.

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9 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

I think ESPN has a bunch of archived NCAA matches that you can access by logging in with your cable company. 

This.   Most of the semis/finals are all on youtube but it seems harder to find some of the earlier rounds.

OP when you say "every NCAA wrestling match" do you mean the tournament or literally every match?  As I'm sure you found out BTN puts a ton of content out on youtube including both duals and the tournament (I would say their subscription and maybe BTN+ would be good for in season but a lot of it does get put on youtube within like 24 hours).

There are also a bunch of like bootlegged dual meets on youtube as well which you may have already found (usually the ACC winds up on there for example), Oklahoma State's actual channel puts a lot of their matches on there too, but you can usually google the school 

IMO if it's matches you want to see Flo would be good but especially more recently they seem to be more focused on international wrestling.   They do also have a lot of films which you'd probably enjoy.    It is possible to join by month if you join one of the other sports (and some of them used to be less expensive even), but if you plan on keeping it then the yearly makes sense.

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Luckily a lot of lobbyists have made my life easy these days as I have subscriptions to Flo, Track, TOM, Intermat, and Rokfin.

Flo- I have canceled my subscription, however will likely pick it up for Fargo. Their content is getting stale and their personalities can be very abrasive at times. I'll either take advantage of their 20% off offer(after I canceled they offered this) or go through one of their other platforms for a monthly subscription. 

Track- Lots of events on their Gold+ plan along with the text updates. Text updates are nice when you want to follow, but also have a life. 

TOM- They are still getting a lot of content published with the new hire. If I were to cut one they would be high on the list as I can't read everything.

Intermat- Greatly increased content even in the off-season. Hopefully it continues.

Rokfin- It is nice, but a little cumbersome to really consume a lot of content on there. I wish there was a Facebook/Twitter type feed with the new content so we could easily see the new stuff being posted.

At the end of the day paying the money for these things is good for the sport. People promoting the sport and earning a living off of it is GREAT. Keep in mind when you complain about prices, money drives everything. Too many people want everything for free in wrestling and that is not sustainable.

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If you're looking for matches/tournament coverage, Flo is definitely the best bang for your buck. If you're looking for more independent journalism type stuff, I'd check out Rokfin. Subscribing to one channel gets you all of them and it's monthly instead of a large one time payment. A good starting point would be Matscouts with Willie Saylor. Unfortunately, you won't find a ton of matches on there though.

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1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

This.   Most of the semis/finals are all on youtube but it seems harder to find some of the earlier rounds.

OP when you say "every NCAA wrestling match" do you mean the tournament or literally every match?  As I'm sure you found out BTN puts a ton of content out on youtube including both duals and the tournament (I would say their subscription and maybe BTN+ would be good for in season but a lot of it does get put on youtube within like 24 hours).

There are also a bunch of like bootlegged dual meets on youtube as well which you may have already found (usually the ACC winds up on there for example), Oklahoma State's actual channel puts a lot of their matches on there too, but you can usually google the school 

IMO if it's matches you want to see Flo would be good but especially more recently they seem to be more focused on international wrestling.   They do also have a lot of films which you'd probably enjoy.    It is possible to join by month if you join one of the other sports (and some of them used to be less expensive even), but if you plan on keeping it then the yearly makes sense.

Unfortunately, ESPN only leaves the replays up for a month and then they disappear forever (unless I'm not looking in the right places). When I go in now, I can no longer see this year's NCAAs.

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Depending on how you look at it, Flo pays for itself pretty fast. Watch a few tournaments that would be $20-40 a ticket from your couch, workdesk or phone on the train and that $150 has been recouped.

I don’t really like how FloSports moves or how they treat their employees across the board, but it’s what we got. Hoping to see more independent streamers make it to Rokfin, it’s a much more sustainable model if someone has the industry connections, equipment and savvy for niche sports journalism.

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This is an incredible amount of feedback and insight in a very short time since I posted.  Just want to say first of all - thanks to the community for the assistance.  I will respond to each of your posts this evening when I get more time to give them their due attention. 

At first glance it looks like Flo may be my best choice for what I'm looking for.  From what I understand, Willie is from Easton and since I started wrestling in Allentown - not too far away, I like the idea of supporting local business.   Seems like he has some of the best connections and content from a written perspective.  I may be inclined to venture down that path next.  
 

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6 hours ago, IronChef said:

If you want to watch the most high level wrestling, and it sounds like that's what you want, get Flo. They have more college stuff and have the international stuff moving forward. 

Also, Track is $129.99 per year, not $50 as stated above.  

Ah yeah, you're right.  I had paid $50 way back when I started my track membership.  It's been a long time since then.  I'd have to look back to March 2020 to see what I last paid.  I didn't thunk/realize it was that much now, if so.

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50 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

This is an incredible amount of feedback and insight in a very short time since I posted.  Just want to say first of all - thanks to the community for the assistance.  I will respond to each of your posts this evening when I get more time to give them their due attention. 

At first glance it looks like Flo may be my best choice for what I'm looking for.  From what I understand, Willie is from Easton and since I started wrestling in Allentown - not too far away, I like the idea of supporting local business.   Seems like he has some of the best connections and content from a written perspective.  I may be inclined to venture down that path next.  
 

I would go he other route.  Intermat first, as it is still in it's infancy under Willie's leadership.  Price has the highest chance to go up, as their entire business model has changed and will change the most in the next year.  I am looking forward to see it grow.

Also I forgot about TOM.  I haven't had that one as my others fill my appetite.

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I would go he other route.  Intermat first, as it is still in it's infancy under Willie's leadership.  Price has the highest chance to go up, as their entire business model has changed and will change the most in the next year.  I am looking forward to see it grow.
Also I forgot about TOM.  I haven't had that one as my others fill my appetite.

Intermat does not have event video, so I'm not sure how that helps the OP.

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10 hours ago, 1032004 said:

This.   Most of the semis/finals are all on youtube but it seems harder to find some of the earlier rounds.

OP when you say "every NCAA wrestling match" do you mean the tournament or literally every match?  As I'm sure you found out BTN puts a ton of content out on youtube including both duals and the tournament (I would say their subscription and maybe BTN+ would be good for in season but a lot of it does get put on youtube within like 24 hours).

There are also a bunch of like bootlegged dual meets on youtube as well which you may have already found (usually the ACC winds up on there for example), Oklahoma State's actual channel puts a lot of their matches on there too, but you can usually google the school 

IMO if it's matches you want to see Flo would be good but especially more recently they seem to be more focused on international wrestling.   They do also have a lot of films which you'd probably enjoy.    It is possible to join by month if you join one of the other sports (and some of them used to be less expensive even), but if you plan on keeping it then the yearly makes sense.

I have watched all of the NCAA championship matches I can find, as well as conference championships and duals.  Mostly have stuck to D1.  You're right the ACC has ended up on youtube a lot which has given me great exposure to NC State and Virginia Tech which are exciting teams for me.  

Thanks for these recommendations.

Another thing randomly on youtube that i've watched all of are the PIAA high school championships between 1995-2003.  And the NHSCA from the same period

Edited by flyingcement

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7 hours ago, moodybooty said:

Depending on how you look at it, Flo pays for itself pretty fast. Watch a few tournaments that would be $20-40 a ticket from your couch, workdesk or phone on the train and that $150 has been recouped.

I don’t really like how FloSports moves or how they treat their employees across the board, but it’s what we got. Hoping to see more independent streamers make it to Rokfin, it’s a much more sustainable model if someone has the industry connections, equipment and savvy for niche sports journalism.

This is something I'm glad you pointed out.  I know there are two sides to every story, but there seems to be some bad feelings about how they have treated former employees which doesn't sit well with me personally.  Since I don't know the people and the real story though, it's hard for me to really use it as a justifying factor.  Character is important to me like a lot of people.   

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3 hours ago, IronChef said:


Intermat does not have event video, so I'm not sure how that helps the OP.

If Intermat does not have event video at this moment, that would help narrow down my choices for now.  I think that would be my first choice of subscriptions if I decide to go down the path of content at some point.  

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13 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I have Flo, Rokfin, and Intermat.  To me, they're worth it, each one of them.  If I had to put them in order, right now?  Throwing moralities out the window?  It's still even there.  Roll a dice.  

Flo has the most content(currently) at $150 for the year up front($12.50 a month end-cost).

Intermat is improving more and more under the guidance of Willie.  I expect more content as well as an increase in cost (eventually).  Not sure how their streaming plan/options are going to look in the future.  Perhaps @Husker_Du can educate us.  $40 a year ($3.33 a month end-cost).

Rokfin @ $9.99 a month.  Rokfin was easily the best, but since NCAA season started the content has leveled out a bit to make it rather even for the cost.

Intermat at $40 makes that a no-brainer, looking at it honestly.

Trackwrestling at $50 per year is also not bad, but their future/intent is clouded for me right now.  I don't know what to expect going forward being as Flo bought them out.

SO!

In hindsight:
Intermat first.
Flip a coin for Rokfin/Flo
If you're trusting that track is going to maintain current content for free or make more behind a paywall(like Flo) I would do track at $50 before Flo at $150 and do a Rokfin at $10 per month.

SO!!

 

In summary, after re-reading my rants/raves:

Get all four.

If getting three, get Intermat, Rokfin, Flo

If getting two, get Intermat, Flo

If getting one, and willing to spend $150, right now it is Flo.  My opinion may change and if money is a concern for now, Intermat is the way to go, and the price option of monthly for Rokfin plust $90 for Track/Intermat total for a year is  the easier option.  Me, personally, I factor in moralities and will put Intermat and Rokfin ahead of Flo every time, if it comes down to that sort of cancel-culture mentality taking a priority in decision making.

Sorry to be all over, but these are ramblings.

Very thorough breakdown and thanks for the summary as well.  I think Flo may be the better choice for me given my current preferences.  

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10 hours ago, BobDole said:

Luckily a lot of lobbyists have made my life easy these days as I have subscriptions to Flo, Track, TOM, Intermat, and Rokfin.

Flo- I have canceled my subscription, however will likely pick it up for Fargo. Their content is getting stale and their personalities can be very abrasive at times. I'll either take advantage of their 20% off offer(after I canceled they offered this) or go through one of their other platforms for a monthly subscription. 

Track- Lots of events on their Gold+ plan along with the text updates. Text updates are nice when you want to follow, but also have a life. 

TOM- They are still getting a lot of content published with the new hire. If I were to cut one they would be high on the list as I can't read everything.

Intermat- Greatly increased content even in the off-season. Hopefully it continues.

Rokfin- It is nice, but a little cumbersome to really consume a lot of content on there. I wish there was a Facebook/Twitter type feed with the new content so we could easily see the new stuff being posted.

At the end of the day paying the money for these things is good for the sport. People promoting the sport and earning a living off of it is GREAT. Keep in mind when you complain about prices, money drives everything. Too many people want everything for free in wrestling and that is not sustainable.

Thanks for your advice.

While I agree with the boldfaced, I would also like to add a couple of points.  I think there is more of a give and a take.  Money is an important motivator for the companies, but also for the customers who are determining how to allocate their finite recreational money.  Creating barriers to entry for the sport by requiring expensive subscriptions could be very short sighted for the growth of the sport.  I prefer a partnership where the customers realize that companies need to fund their operations and companies realize financial realities of their customers and the extent to which they may alienate them by overpricing.  

Simply doing business in wrestling is not necessarily great.  There businesses that are predatory within any industry that I would never want to give my money to.  

Didn't mean to go over the top there and appreciate all of your content related advice.  

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9 hours ago, flyingcement said:

Thanks for your advice.

While I agree with the boldfaced, I would also like to add a couple of points.  I think there is more of a give and a take.  Money is an important motivator for the companies, but also for the customers who are determining how to allocate their finite recreational money.  Creating barriers to entry for the sport by requiring expensive subscriptions could be very short sighted for the growth of the sport.  I prefer a partnership where the customers realize that companies need to fund their operations and companies realize financial realities of their customers and the extent to which they may alienate them by overpricing.  

Simply doing business in wrestling is not necessarily great.  There businesses that are predatory within any industry that I would never want to give my money to.  

Didn't mean to go over the top there and appreciate all of your content related advice.  

You're not wrong, however that is the nature of anything in life. Too many wrestling people want everything for free and for many years most everything was free. I remember back when the only site that charged was Intermat.

Some of the business models we have can limit our exposure. For instance, the Flo model is basically a cash grab in that you have to pay for a full year and there are technically no monthly or single event options(FYI you can go to another vertical to get monthly options and get wrestling content). That type of model hurts the people who want to watch a single event like Super 32, Ironman, etc and not pay $150 for it. The TrackWrestling model of having an option for MANY events(Gold+) or being able to buy a single event is great. 

The casual fans are who we hurt with poor business models such as these. Grandma and grandpa, uncle Joe, etc aren't going to shell out $150 to watch Billy at the Super 32 or Fargo. They might shell out $15 or $20 though. The news sites aren't really for the fringe wrestling fans, sites like Rokfin, Intermat, TOM, etc. are there for the hardcore fans that want to consume an insane amount of content.  

Edited by BobDole

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It looks like Flo has killed the TrackWrestling Gold+ subscription service. This means you only need one account for all videos on Track or Flo.

Word on the street is that there will be no more subscriptions for one event and you'll have to do the yearly thing. If it goes that far don't forget that other flo verticals allow monthly subscriptions.

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5 hours ago, BobDole said:

It looks like Flo has killed the TrackWrestling Gold+ subscription service. This means you only need one account for all videos on Track or Flo.

Word on the street is that there will be no more subscriptions for one event and you'll have to do the yearly thing. If it goes that far don't forget that other flo verticals allow monthly subscriptions.

Thanks for the heads up.  I was actually on the brink of signing up for Flo when I witnessed their Twitter account put out a few blunders that made me second guess how committed they are to their product. Two factually incorrect posts in a short period of time is not encouraging, but I am of course being a bit pedantic here

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