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BigTimeFan

USA Wrestling all-time fantasy 74kg tournament

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On 6/27/2021 at 3:41 PM, BigTimeFan said:

Interesting through 88 I don’t think Monday ever beat Schultz. After 88 it was the opposite. JB VS Kemp would be a classic. 

Monday beat Schultz one out of three in 87 trials and beat Schultz again in 88 trials.

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On 6/27/2021 at 3:56 PM, Katie said:

Are you kidding? I haven’t seen much footage of Monday, but I’ve seen footage of Schultz, and prime JB would have teched him. 

I highly doubt that

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On 6/29/2021 at 6:29 PM, boconnell said:

There you go.  

A guy wins while being tested, you have no proof and no indicators of any kind, and you think using quotation marks somehow dirties his accomplishment.  It doesn't.  It says a lot more about you than it does about him. 

Exactly. 
Trying way way to hard when you’re trying to compare an athlete who is tested rigorously before and after competition, to athletes in a league that had zero testing at all. 
 

Not at all surprising. 

Edited by Lurker

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On 6/28/2021 at 7:50 AM, BigTimeFan said:

Love ya Katie, but now you’ve gone too far! No one every teched Schultz. I give you this, though. If you watch the 1988 best of three Schultz-Monday series, Monday beats Schultz with a style similar to JB’s. Lots of shots from afar with quick finishes when completely neutralized Schultz’s amazing defense. 

Also, I’m a hugE Schultz home as I lived and trained with him and Mark in Palo Alto one glorious spring a long time ago. 

You may be "spot on" here.  Do you remember the Olympic Sports Festival, maybe 1987 or even 88 .....Schultz hi-c, Monday in a crotch lift position, but Schultz did a forward roll, taking Monday to his back, while exposing his own)  Schultz initiated the move and got the points.....clever.  Might have to go to my library and look at that again.

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2 hours ago, BigTimeFan said:

Tbilisi champ. If not for a cracked vertebrate may have made the 1996 Oly team. 

I think you mean a different year - Schalles would have been well past 40 years old in 1996.

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Schultz had a vicious front headlock though, and JB isn't going to get that blast double every time.  Nate Carr was fast as hell and Schultz countered him.  The peak vs peak matches are no walk overs for anyone.

Edited by 152lbs

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7 hours ago, 152lbs said:

Schultz had a vicious front headlock though, and JB isn't going to get that blast double every time.  Nate Carr was fast as hell and Schultz countered him.  The peak vs peak matches are no walk overs for anyone.

Agreed.  JB can't walk over anybody on the list, it is a GOAT list.  Still, Nate Carr and JB are apples and oranges. 

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My point is that Nate Carr was lightning fast and Schultz had an answer for that.  Kenny Monday was also super fast and Schultz neutralized much of that.  Monday's lateral drop, on the other hand is another story.  As great as JB is, he probably never wins this tournament even if it is wrestled 10 times.  (Each wrestler at their peak)

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11 minutes ago, 152lbs said:

My point is that Nate Carr was lightning fast and Schultz had an answer for that.  Kenny Monday was also super fast and Schultz neutralized much of that.  Monday's lateral drop, on the other hand is another story.  As great as JB is, he probably never wins this tournament even if it is wrestled 10 times.  (Each wrestler at their peak)

JB is most decorated of the group; and he won his golds in an era of fewer weight classes and after the Soviet breakup.  He also won his golds in era when technique was more advanced.  He is definitely the best in the group. 

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1 hour ago, Katie said:

.....and he won his golds in an era of fewer weight classes and after the Soviet breakup.....

Current freestyle wrestling competition is stronger or at least as strong as the soviet era, but thats not true for a lot of other Olympic sports. The soviets had excellent run programs in multiple disciplines  that diminished  severely and never recovered post soviet fall. 

Greco is one of those. Its much easier to win in Greco today than during the soviet era. The  soviet greco infrastructure produced killer after killer, that is gone.  Much more colorful flag array at the winner podiums today ( and its not transplants). 

Freestyle kept its strength  because the sport is so independently popular in Ossetia, Dagestan and a couple other regions.  If it didn't have that cultural base there, FS would have suffered too. 

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2 hours ago, Katie said:

JB is most decorated of the group; and he won his golds in an era of fewer weight classes and after the Soviet breakup.  He also won his golds in era when technique was more advanced.  He is definitely the best in the group. 

I disagree.  Lee Kemp is the best at his peak vs the field.

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This would have to be a multi day round robin pool type tournament.  Any one of the guys at their peak could win a single match.

All of the older generation would fall over dead making weight day-of and doing it multiple days in a row.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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6 hours ago, 152lbs said:

This is where we get into splitting hairs.  I  felt 1982 Kemp was his best year.  

I think I read somewhere that Kemp was in a masters program the year he lost to Schultz.  Anyway, he was absurdly good, and would have been right there with JB if he had been able to benefit from more advanced training methods, technique, etc.

Edited by Katie

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