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Favorite NCAA title bouts

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9 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

If Lewis did that today about half the board would want to ban him from wrestling. Him and Schultz were brutal on top. 

Schultz was a sadist. Check the Royce Alger story. He is a problematic hero.

Edited by jackwebster

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6 hours ago, jackwebster said:

Schultz was a sadist. Check the Royce Alger story. He is a problematic hero.

I've heard the stories. His brother told me a few too. Nicest guy in the world if he wasn't trying to beat you on the mat. One of my coaches wrestled Dave and he told me Dave came up to him before their match and was showing him what he thought would work for him. Then they got called and Dave wrecked him of course. Then afterwards Dave was showing him what he should try and giving him advice. Randy said Dave almost killed him going live in par terre once. 

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1 hour ago, TripNSweep said:

I've heard the stories. His brother told me a few too. Nicest guy in the world if he wasn't trying to beat you on the mat. One of my coaches wrestled Dave and he told me Dave came up to him before their match and was showing him what he thought would work for him. Then they got called and Dave wrecked him of course. Then afterwards Dave was showing him what he should try and giving him advice. Randy said Dave almost killed him going live in par terre once. 

No doubt, he was a complicated dude. We hear the paradoxical accounts, but I wonder what he thought about  the people he was hurting while he was hurting them. Maybe, when it came to wrestling, people were just abstractions. Like he was so wrapped up in the execution, the chess, the struggle that he didn't see them as people with moms, kids, etc.

Same with the nice guy bit: he wasn't chatting with other wrestlers; he was communing with "WRESTLING."

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5 hours ago, jackwebster said:

No doubt, he was a complicated dude. We hear the paradoxical accounts, but I wonder what he thought about  the people he was hurting while he was hurting them. Maybe, when it came to wrestling, people were just abstractions. Like he was so wrapped up in the execution, the chess, the struggle that he didn't see them as people with moms, kids, etc.

Same with the nice guy bit: he wasn't chatting with other wrestlers; he was communing with "WRESTLING."

It sounds like you're putting too much thought into this. 

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On 7/14/2021 at 6:45 AM, fadzaev2 said:

Not sure, but here is a quote from Lewis in an article.......

When you were at the University of Iowa, you won two NCAA titles, correct?

Yeah, I went 91 matches in a row at Iowa without a loss. I had a tie in there against Darryl Burley, who I beat four times in college.

He did lose to Burley in the Midlands final in 1981.....maybe he wasn't counting that because it was an "open" tournament.  My guess is the tie was in the East-West All Star match....I may have that in my video library....may have to watch it!

Lewis was out of eligibility by the end of March 1981. Didn't redshirt, so he was a "graduate" at the time of the Burley loss.

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On 7/17/2021 at 9:47 PM, TripNSweep said:

If Lewis did that today about half the board would want to ban him from wrestling. Him and Schultz were brutal on top. 

If they wanted to ban him for that, either they have bias against him personally or don't understand that was the ref's issue to deal with it. 

Lewis was NOT a pain administrator, didn't force joints, but excellent with leverage and physics.

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9 hours ago, BadgerMon said:

If they wanted to ban him for that, either they have bias against him personally or don't understand that was the ref's issue to deal with it. 

Lewis was NOT a pain administrator, didn't force joints, but excellent with leverage and physics.

It seems like half the people here complain about whoever it is doing something. People complained about Fleming, Simmons, etc. so this wouldn't be any different.

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15 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

It seems like half the people here complain about whoever it is doing something. People complained about Fleming, Simmons, etc. so this wouldn't be any different.

I'll admit, regarding Simmons---that throat "ride" was highly dis-advantageous to anyone underneath. But that's on the ref's...clearly it was a matter of restricting blood flow to the brain.

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4 hours ago, BadgerMon said:

I'll admit, regarding Simmons---that throat "ride" was highly dis-advantageous to anyone underneath. But that's on the ref's...clearly it was a matter of restricting blood flow to the brain.

How often did it get called though? With Fleming they made what he was doing illegal even though it wasn't nearly as dangerous.

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18 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

How often did it get called though? With Fleming they made what he was doing illegal even though it wasn't nearly as dangerous.

Exactly. Like I said it was on the refs. 

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18 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

How often did it get called though? With Fleming they made what he was doing illegal even though it wasn't nearly as dangerous.

Gotta ask--who was Fleming and what was his move?

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27 minutes ago, BadgerMon said:

Gotta ask--who was Fleming and what was his move?

James Fleming, he wrestled at Clarion in the early 2010’s.  He had a vicious and unique side headlock that he would slap on, squeeze and leverage.  It was tight enough and safe enough it was pretty hard to get away from, and he had a few different ways he would roll, including straight over the top, that you could either go over or let your jaw, skull, and neck get cranked until the ref called a stalemate.  It was perfectly legal when he wrestled bc at the time officials viewed a side headlock as an easy ride and perfectly harmless rather than a jiu jitsu neck crank it got turned into.  

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5 hours ago, Drew87 said:

James Fleming, he wrestled at Clarion in the early 2010’s.  He had a vicious and unique side headlock that he would slap on, squeeze and leverage.  It was tight enough and safe enough it was pretty hard to get away from, and he had a few different ways he would roll, including straight over the top, that you could either go over or let your jaw, skull, and neck get cranked until the ref called a stalemate.  It was perfectly legal when he wrestled bc at the time officials viewed a side headlock as an easy ride and perfectly harmless rather than a jiu jitsu neck crank it got turned into.  

In regards to that, it wasn't too different from what Steve St. John did when he wrestled at ASU. I watched a lot of video on Fleming and even reached out to him for the finer points of it. While illegal in college, the NFHS still hasn't banned it, so it's fair game in high school. The lock around the jaw has to be very right because of the mechanics of the hold. I always end up explaining why if you get off the jaw it won't work. You can slip into the neck very easily, but if you do then you can't really use it to turn somebody. The thing is unless you're Fleming, you can't really replicate what he does. I just modified it based on his description and watching video. The best part of the way I have learned it and teach it is that it doesn't really require a lot of strength, it's leverage, technique and using the human anatomy more or less. It isn't perfect or something you should have as a go to top move, but it's one of those things it's useful to know if you need to throw something unusual for points late. 

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Dave Shultz was one of a kind.   When it came to executing a move that inflicted pain on the mat wrestling, don't know of many if any that could match Dave.  Brutal and relentless on the Mat but a really nice guy when off the mat.  Randy was brutal on top, and fearless, but Dave was the man in his prime.   

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