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14 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

You make fair points here, MSU. I would add that there IS clear data showing adverse incidents for people who have had Covid and then subsequently get the vaccine.

Also, when countries lose their collective minds and start mandating that friends and neighbors literally not even speak with one another out of doors, then this will push people to not go along. That IS insanity. It proves more so than any other thing that politicians will take as much power as the people are willing to cede, and then some more just to ensure they have taken all that is currently available. 

 

Insanity is insisting behavior doesn't need to change when the world around you changes dramatically.

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12 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I assume your PhD comment is based on this survey (whose respondents were self-reported via Facebook) - https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1.full-text#T1

Check out Tables 1 & 2.  “Highest quartile Trump vote” is the highest hesitancy of any of the groupings.  By far.

That shows PhDs are the most vaccine hesitant at the end of the study. 

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38 minutes ago, dman115 said:

So what??  What does that tell you??  If you are vaccinated who the heck cares who isn't??  And also, this whole covid thing isn't political or is it??

Oh it's political.  But it shouldn't be.  But some of them are too far gone.  For example Trump told people at his rally in Alabama to get the vaccine and he got booed.

 

7 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

That shows PhDs are the most vaccine hesitant at the end of the study. 

They are the most hesitant by education level, at 23.9%.   But highest quartile Trump vote was 32.5% (and second highest quartile was 27.6%).

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22 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Oh it's political.  But it shouldn't be.  But some of them are too far gone.  For example Trump told people at his rally in Alabama to get the vaccine and he got booed.

 

They are the most hesitant by education level, at 23.9%.   But highest quartile Trump vote was 32.5% (and second highest quartile was 27.6%).

OK, but TBar said PhDs are the most likely to get vaccinated and you offered this study in support of that?

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28 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

OK, but TBar said PhDs are the most likely to get vaccinated and you offered this study in support of that?

Ah whoops, read that wrong.  Thought he was saying PhDs were less likely...

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46 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Oh it's political.  But it shouldn't be.  But some of them are too far gone.  For example Trump told people at his rally in Alabama to get the vaccine and he got booed.

Totally agree! 

The boo'ing was so stupid...and I am not even a trump fan...quite opposite really.  What really bugs me is Trump never actually ever said to not get vaccinated...talking about people's freedom's does not mean he is encouraging people to not get vaccinated.  People LOVE to twist words that people say to mean something they don't...all sides do it and it so annoying.   We are talking about adults who make their own freaking decisions...I don't care what some idiot politician says I will make the decision based on many many different factors based on what I learn and read.

I can only imagine what this would have been like if the idiots in government didn't turn this Covid thing political...I could almost guarantee we would not be wearing masks right now.

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12 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I assume your PhD comment is based on this survey (whose respondents were self-reported via Facebook) - https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1.full-text#T1

Check out Tables 1 & 2.  “Highest quartile Trump vote” is the highest hesitancy of any of the groupings.  By far.

That is the data set, but their methodology for connecting  "the Trump vote" to vaccine reluctance is somewhat suspect. They applied data taken by "County" and if Trump carried the county and the data showed a higher reluctance in that county then they imply that Trump voters are the sole reason. That is suspect. But aside from that, they write the following:

The largest decrease in hesitancy between January and May by education group was in those with a high school education or less. Hesitancy held constant in the most educated group (those with a Ph.D.); by May Ph.D.’s were the most hesitant group.

First, "high school education or less" is also associated with Trump voters. They had the largest DECREASE in hesitancy. PhD's are associated with the left, and they remain the most hesitant. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

That shows PhDs are the most vaccine hesitant at the end of the study. 

From the comments section, which you should read if you want to understand the problems with the "PhD" numbers and the survey itself (not a study or a poll, but a self-selected survey).

"The broader numbers don't come from polling, they come from people who saw the survey and filled it out.
That kind of self-selection will produce skewered results. If 35% of the people claiming to be PhDs said they're hesitant it means that of the people who chose to answer 35% of those claiming to be PhDs answered they're not going to take the vaccine.

It doesn't mean they have PhDs.

And it doesn't mean that 35% of PhDs are hesitant."

Also, the PhD category does not include MDs, DVMs, etc.

This survey isn't worth very much, but I can see that you picked it up from your sources of "information."

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10 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

d

Not even worth it. 

Hold on.  I'll handle this from here.  Apparently I'm a medical doctor now, per Bratke.

As a Bratke defined medical doctor I think we all need to just calm down.

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46 minutes ago, klehner said:

From the comments section, which you should read if you want to understand the problems with the "PhD" numbers and the survey itself (not a study or a poll, but a self-selected survey).

"The broader numbers don't come from polling, they come from people who saw the survey and filled it out.
That kind of self-selection will produce skewered results. If 35% of the people claiming to be PhDs said they're hesitant it means that of the people who chose to answer 35% of those claiming to be PhDs answered they're not going to take the vaccine.

It doesn't mean they have PhDs.

And it doesn't mean that 35% of PhDs are hesitant."

Also, the PhD category does not include MDs, DVMs, etc.

This survey isn't worth very much, but I can see that you picked it up from your sources of "information."

I can see you aren't paying attention, but that is part for the course as most everything goes immediately over your head.

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1 hour ago, klehner said:

From the comments section, which you should read if you want to understand the problems with the "PhD" numbers and the survey itself (not a study or a poll, but a self-selected survey).

"The broader numbers don't come from polling, they come from people who saw the survey and filled it out.
That kind of self-selection will produce skewered results. If 35% of the people claiming to be PhDs said they're hesitant it means that of the people who chose to answer 35% of those claiming to be PhDs answered they're not going to take the vaccine.

It doesn't mean they have PhDs.

And it doesn't mean that 35% of PhDs are hesitant."

Also, the PhD category does not include MDs, DVMs, etc.

This survey isn't worth very much, but I can see that you picked it up from your sources of "information."

Your response is worth even less. 

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1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

That is the data set, but their methodology for connecting  "the Trump vote" to vaccine reluctance is somewhat suspect. They applied data taken by "County" and if Trump carried the county and the data showed a higher reluctance in that county then they imply that Trump voters are the sole reason. That is suspect. But aside from that, they write the following:

The largest decrease in hesitancy between January and May by education group was in those with a high school education or less. Hesitancy held constant in the most educated group (those with a Ph.D.); by May Ph.D.’s were the most hesitant group.

First, "high school education or less" is also associated with Trump voters. They had the largest DECREASE in hesitancy. PhD's are associated with the left, and they remain the most hesitant. 

 

 

So to clarify, you did mean to say originally that PhD's were the most vaccine hesitant, not what you actually said which was that they were most likely to get vaccinated?

Once again, according to this facebook survey where people self-identified their answers, PhD's were most hesitant BY EDUCATION LEVEL (and as klehner pointed out, degrees like MD's and JD's were included under "Professional Degrees").  But amongst the various other groupings, they were not the most hesitant overall.  Off the top of my head, Native Americans were also higher in addition to the two highest quartile highest Trump vote shares.

I don't think the authors were implying that Trump was the sole reason for areas with the highest Trump vote being the most hesitant.  They were just relaying the data, similar to how they relayed the data about PhD's.  However, the survey also included other questions that some would probably argue are the "real reason" for Trump voters being more vaccine hesitant, such as living in a rural area, but that is not as high as the Trump vote share.   And there are rural areas in the Northeast too, but many are still highly vaccinated.

Here's another chart showing the correlation.  Yes, correlation does not equal causation, but I think there's definitely something to it:

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

That is the data set, but their methodology for connecting  "the Trump vote" to vaccine reluctance is somewhat suspect. They applied data taken by "County" and if Trump carried the county and the data showed a higher reluctance in that county then they imply that Trump voters are the sole reason. That is suspect. But aside from that, they write the following:

The largest decrease in hesitancy between January and May by education group was in those with a high school education or less. Hesitancy held constant in the most educated group (those with a Ph.D.); by May Ph.D.’s were the most hesitant group.

First, "high school education or less" is also associated with Trump voters. They had the largest DECREASE in hesitancy. PhD's are associated with the left, and they remain the most hesitant. 

 

 

The respondents self identified their education level on Facebook. This “study” isn’t using a valid data set. 

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1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

So to clarify, you did mean to say originally that PhD's were the most vaccine hesitant, not what you actually said which was that they were most likely to get vaccinated?

Once again, according to this facebook survey where people self-identified their answers, PhD's were most hesitant BY EDUCATION LEVEL (and as klehner pointed out, degrees like MD's and JD's were included under "Professional Degrees").  But amongst the various other groupings, they were not the most hesitant overall.  Off the top of my head, Native Americans were also higher in addition to the two highest quartile highest Trump vote shares.

I don't think the authors were implying that Trump was the sole reason for areas with the highest Trump vote being the most hesitant.  They were just relaying the data, similar to how they relayed the data about PhD's.  However, the survey also included other questions that some would probably argue are the "real reason" for Trump voters being more vaccine hesitant, such as living in a rural area, but that is not as high as the Trump vote share.   And there are rural areas in the Northeast too, but many are still highly vaccinated.

Here's another chart showing the correlation.  Yes, correlation does not equal causation, but I think there's definitely something to it:

 

 

 

This is super interesting.  Thanks for sharing.  One key takeaway that I also glean from this are the bubble sizes.  High population (presumably density also) with the larger bubbles go to the blue.  Small population (and presumably density) go to the red.  Lots of big bubbles on left... even more, smaller bubbles on right.  I wonder if it's because those that live in the smaller bubbles live in less dense areas, and are thus have less potential exposure, which in turn, decreases their perceived level of risk?  

 

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1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Here's another chart showing the correlation.  Yes, correlation does not equal causation, but I think there's definitely something to it:

 

 

 

 

If I place my cursor in the middle of the red and blue pill inkblots in your chart I get roughly high 30 percent, maybe 40 percent for the red pill counties and then a huge leap to 55 plus percent for the blue pill counties. That doesn't square up at all with the data at the health.pa.gov covid dashboard. Not. Even. Close. 

Full Vaccination Rates per 100,000 population Rural PA Counties (small representative sample of rural red counties)

47,864 Schuykill County 

46,970 Elk County

36,651 Warren County

 

Full Vaccination Rates per 100,000 population Urban/Suburban PA Counties (small representative sample of blue counties)

51,641 Montgomery County (Suburban Philadelphia)

50,260 Delaware County (Suburban Philadelphia)

50,531 Luzerne County (Biden Country, voted Dem)

7,600 Philadelphia County (Philadelphia City and County are one and same)

 

So maybe 8 percent higher in these suburbs vs rural counties, but astronomically lower in Philadelphia. And Philadelphia had wide spread access to the vaccine before any other county in PA. If you account for the sheer size of Philadelphia relative to everything else in PA it would certainly drastically lower the vaccination rate of the blue pill counties. So too would adding in Centre County which may have the highest rate of PhD's per capita. 

EDIT: My data purports to have been updated 8/25/2021 which is today. 

https://www.health.pa.gov/topics/disease/coronavirus/Vaccine/Pages/Dashboard.aspx

 

Edited by TBar1977

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4 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

 

If I place my cursor in the middle of the red and blue pill inkblots in your chart I get roughly high 30 percent, maybe 40 percent for the red pill counties and then a huge leap to 55 plus percent for the blue pill counties. That doesn't square up at all with the data at the health.pa.gov covid dashboard. Not. Even. Close. 

Full Vaccination Rates per 100,000 population Rural PA Counties (small representative sample of rural red counties)

47,864 Schuykill County 

46,970 Elk County

36,651 Warren County

 

Full Vaccination Rates per 100,000 population Urban/Suburban PA Counties (small representative sample of blue counties)

51,641 Montgomery County (Suburban Philadelphia)

50,260 Delaware County (Suburban Philadelphia)

50,531 Luzerne County (Biden Country, voted Dem)

7,600 Philadelphia County (Philadelphia City and County are one and same)

 

So maybe 8 percent higher in these suburbs vs rural counties, but astronomically lower in Philadelphia. And Philadelphia had wide spread access to the vaccine before any other county in PA. 

 

Do we know if the data is normalized to include/exclude those that are 12 yrs of age or younger?  That matters in many counties, given the average/median ages of what is constituting the population of the county.  My son is 10, and isn't eligible for the vaccine in NC.  My daughter is 13, and is eligible.  This may matter, depending on how the statistics are gathered and manipulated, given each county's demographic makeup.  

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