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NJDan

Any Precedent for Biles

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Just now, Drake_Mallard said:

Yeah, probably doesnt count. Though, when he retired I was just as, if not more shocked.

Me too.  I kept thinking he was going to comeback and the Lions would deal him or something.  It is interesting where I feel like it isn't too dissimilar to Aaron Rodgers, but different time (and Sanders is one of the most humble athletes I can remember).

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Philadelphia Eagles All-pro Guard Brandon Brooks Missed a game due to mental health issues.  I believe he suffers from anxiety and panic attacks.  He was abruptly unavailable one game.  Not the same scale but it is a team sport and kind of a big deal.  He returned the next game.

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8 hours ago, olddirty said:

I didnt miss it.  He could compete at the one of ten next Grand Prix and enter the GP series in 7 months.  You quit at the Olympics, you dont even get another shot for 4 years

It was the last race of the season and had he just finished the race he would have won the world championship. Instead James Hunt managed a 3rd place finish and edged him by 1 point to take the championship. Lauda could have lied and said his car had broken down, he had already almost died in an accident that year, but he took a lap and decided it wasn't safe to drive in those conditions. Of course he came back to win a few more F1 championships, but he could have won that one too. For him he felt it was unacceptable to take that risk just to win. Hunt on the other hand didn't give a ****, which is part of why he won, along with a number of recreational substances. 

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Rob Dibble quit baseball in his prime for no reason at all. 

Alonzo Spellman had to quit football because he couldn't keep it together off the field without causing a scene and kept busting out of mental hospitals. He caused an emergency landing on an airline because he started threatening people for no reason. He also barricaded himself inside his house and threatened the police. 

Barrett Robbins had a mental breakdown the day before he was supposed to play in the Super Bowl and fled to Tijuana to get drunk. 

Ken Griffey Jr tried to commit suicide because he felt pressured to play baseball. 

Ricky Williams self medicated with weed and got himself suspended from the NFL because he had serious anxiety. He gave interviews with his helmet on to avoid people being able to see his face. 

Lots of athletes face this kind of thing. 

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1 hour ago, TripNSweep said:

Also John Kruk retired in the middle of a game after he got a base hit. He asked for the ball, went back to the clubhouse and left the ballpark. 

This is an interesting story that I had never heard of...His last major league hit brought his career average over .300.  I wonder if that had something to do with him leaving mid game rather than waiting until the end of it. 

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Most of these mentioned aren't relevant because they weren't mid-competition. 

Osaka is very relevant because she quit the tournament (French Open) in the middle without a physical injury, and because Biles singled Osaka out as a precedent.

Duran and Pippen are relevant as quitting in the middle of competition, same as Biles, during the actual event (not between matches like Osaka).  

Pippen is perhaps the closest since he left his teammates in the lurch like Biles did.  But their motivations were much different, Pippen didn't cite any medical condition, physical or mental, rather he felt slighted because he wanted the ball; Biles was basically the opposite, she didn't want any part of the competition.

The thing that bothers me about Biles is the mainstream overwhelming reaction of not only support but affirmative praise of her as heroic, and the condemnation of anyone who attempts good faith criticism as a monster.  

Biles is a very wealthy famous person who chose to make millions on commercials this year and sew a goat on her uniform.  Her much less famous and wealthy teammates lost their chance at their dream when Biles quit. Her stated reasons were pretty soft, and facially selfish.  That it was obvious and 100% predictable that she would be lauded and all criticism decried is a perfect encapsulation of our current state of public debate. Look, as has been pointed out on this board, the life of a female gymnast is uniquely stressful even before medical doctors working for your organization sexually abuse you without accountability.  I'm not here to pillory Simone Biles. But it's troubling that the GOAT quitting on her teammates on the biggest stage because she feels it's not fun and not enough about her is now heroic.  

One other thought. To me Barry Sanders is the exact opposite. He was a little guy who dominated a very tough sport with an astonishing work ethic and competitiveness while appearing to have a quiet, modest, down to earth sense of himself.  He decided to retire between seasons on his own terms for his own reasons and felt no need to tell us all about how he felt.  In a lot of ways he reminded me of Pete Sampras.  Best in the world, arguably ever, no flash, just focus, work, and effort, private and quiet but a pleasant interview, had a bit of a chip on his shoulder but controlled it like an adult, knew he was and who he wasn't. Retired on top, quietly and humbly. I hope we can still admire that sort of public figure.  

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21 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

This is an interesting story that I had never heard of...His last major league hit brought his career average over .300.  I wonder if that had something to do with him leaving mid game rather than waiting until the end of it. 

I think that was why. 

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5 hours ago, drag it said:

Her stated reasons were pretty soft, and facially selfish.  That it was obvious and 100% predictable that she would be lauded and all criticism decried is a perfect encapsulation of our current state of public debate. Look, as has been pointed out on this board, the life of a female gymnast is uniquely stressful even before medical doctors working for your organization sexually abuse you without accountability.  I'm not here to pillory Simone Biles. But it's troubling that the GOAT quitting on her teammates on the biggest stage because she feels it's not fun and not enough about her is now heroic.  

The ass-hattery on this forum continues to astound.

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there is honor in accepting that for whatever reason you don't have "it" and walking away...

there is also honor in picking up your shield one last time after that same realization...

i think it is shameful for anyone to paint any picture for an agenda and i can only imagine that is running rampant in our media... 

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Not a precedence, but maybe a what-if type oddity.  Rick Ankiel was a rising young pitcher for the St. Louis Cardinals.  A guy who pitched his entire life suddenly couldn't find the strike zone during a playoff series.  The "yips" as they called them never really went away no matter what they tried.  He was a good enough athlete that he was able to remake himself into an outfielder.  Yet, to this day, I think he turns down most "throw out the first pitch" requests.  

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there are a ton of examples through sports history...

this is not that unique when broken down to the actual nuts and bolts of it...

the only thing that is unique is the current culture in this country and how agenda fueled it is, how divisive, and how hatred filled it has become...

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6 hours ago, drag it said:

Most of these mentioned aren't relevant because they weren't mid-competition. 

Osaka is very relevant because she quit the tournament (French Open) in the middle without a physical injury, and because Biles singled Osaka out as a precedent.

Duran and Pippen are relevant as quitting in the middle of competition, same as Biles, during the actual event (not between matches like Osaka).  

Pippen is perhaps the closest since he left his teammates in the lurch like Biles did.  But their motivations were much different, Pippen didn't cite any medical condition, physical or mental, rather he felt slighted because he wanted the ball; Biles was basically the opposite, she didn't want any part of the competition.

The thing that bothers me about Biles is the mainstream overwhelming reaction of not only support but affirmative praise of her as heroic, and the condemnation of anyone who attempts good faith criticism as a monster.  

Biles is a very wealthy famous person who chose to make millions on commercials this year and sew a goat on her uniform.  Her much less famous and wealthy teammates lost their chance at their dream when Biles quit. Her stated reasons were pretty soft, and facially selfish.  That it was obvious and 100% predictable that she would be lauded and all criticism decried is a perfect encapsulation of our current state of public debate. Look, as has been pointed out on this board, the life of a female gymnast is uniquely stressful even before medical doctors working for your organization sexually abuse you without accountability.  I'm not here to pillory Simone Biles. But it's troubling that the GOAT quitting on her teammates on the biggest stage because she feels it's not fun and not enough about her is now heroic.  

One other thought. To me Barry Sanders is the exact opposite. He was a little guy who dominated a very tough sport with an astonishing work ethic and competitiveness while appearing to have a quiet, modest, down to earth sense of himself.  He decided to retire between seasons on his own terms for his own reasons and felt no need to tell us all about how he felt.  In a lot of ways he reminded me of Pete Sampras.  Best in the world, arguably ever, no flash, just focus, work, and effort, private and quiet but a pleasant interview, had a bit of a chip on his shoulder but controlled it like an adult, knew he was and who he wasn't. Retired on top, quietly and humbly. I hope we can still admire that sort of public figure.  

So it isn't okay for the media (which I hate) and people to praise her, but it IS okay for you to criticize her??  Got it...<eye roll>  You don't have to "praise" her, but have some freaking empathy jerk!!

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11 hours ago, drag it said:

quitting on her teammates on the biggest stage because she feels it's not fun and not enough about her

There's been plenty said about the other stuff, but this is a bizarre way to read what happened and what she has said.

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15 hours ago, Drake_Mallard said:

Barry Sanders retired at the top of his game and on the verge of breaking the all-time rushing record.

He also didn't want to play for the Lions anymore because they'd only made the playoffs once since he got there and didn't sign or draft anybody worth a damn. He wanted to play for a winning team. He came really close to un-retiring to play for Washington. 

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Just now, TripNSweep said:

He also didn't want to play for the Lions anymore because they'd only made the playoffs once since he got there and didn't sign or draft anybody worth a damn. He wanted to play for a winning team. He came really close to un-retiring to play for Washington. 

I think Bobby Ross was a big part of the reason if I remember correctly.

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5 hours ago, dman115 said:

So it isn't okay for the media (which I hate) and people to praise her, but it IS okay for you to criticize her??  Got it...<eye roll>  You don't have to "praise" her, but have some freaking empathy jerk!!

I don't think that was the intention of the OP.  I think the message is simply that if we are going to praise her actions of quitting from the team competition, there should also be enough respect given to voices who are going to criticize her action.

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The case with Barry Sanders, if I remember correctly, was a dispute with the Lions.  They would not release him from his contract so he decided to retire.  In fact, if I remember correctly, the Lions might have also gone after Barry to recoup some of his bonuse he received up front on his contract.

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52 minutes ago, IronChef said:

There's been plenty said about the other stuff, but this is a bizarre way to read what happened and what she has said.

That's not my read of what she said, it's what she said:

"We should be out there having fun and sometimes that’s not the case."

"This Olympic Games I wanted it to be for myself. I came in and felt like I was still doing it for other people. That just hurts my heart that doing what I love has been kind of taken away from me to please other people."

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There's really no comparison to Simone's actions not even Osaka's.  Naomi can still come back in another tournament a year from now and play.  With resect to Olympic athletes and super athletes like Simone with the weight of the country on their shoulders I can totally understand the pressures they face.  But as equally as she is getting praised for withdrawing, there should be no backlash for criticizing her decision.  The person I would like to hear from is Kerry Strug (sp).  I would like to know what she thinks of Simone's decision.

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12 hours ago, drag it said:

Most of these mentioned aren't relevant because they weren't mid-competition. 

Osaka is very relevant because she quit the tournament (French Open) in the middle without a physical injury, and because Biles singled Osaka out as a precedent.

Duran and Pippen are relevant as quitting in the middle of competition, same as Biles, during the actual event (not between matches like Osaka).  

Pippen is perhaps the closest since he left his teammates in the lurch like Biles did.  But their motivations were much different, Pippen didn't cite any medical condition, physical or mental, rather he felt slighted because he wanted the ball; Biles was basically the opposite, she didn't want any part of the competition.

The thing that bothers me about Biles is the mainstream overwhelming reaction of not only support but affirmative praise of her as heroic, and the condemnation of anyone who attempts good faith criticism as a monster.  

Biles is a very wealthy famous person who chose to make millions on commercials this year and sew a goat on her uniform.  Her much less famous and wealthy teammates lost their chance at their dream when Biles quit. Her stated reasons were pretty soft, and facially selfish.  That it was obvious and 100% predictable that she would be lauded and all criticism decried is a perfect encapsulation of our current state of public debate. Look, as has been pointed out on this board, the life of a female gymnast is uniquely stressful even before medical doctors working for your organization sexually abuse you without accountability.  I'm not here to pillory Simone Biles. But it's troubling that the GOAT quitting on her teammates on the biggest stage because she feels it's not fun and not enough about her is now heroic.  

One other thought. To me Barry Sanders is the exact opposite. He was a little guy who dominated a very tough sport with an astonishing work ethic and competitiveness while appearing to have a quiet, modest, down to earth sense of himself.  He decided to retire between seasons on his own terms for his own reasons and felt no need to tell us all about how he felt.  In a lot of ways he reminded me of Pete Sampras.  Best in the world, arguably ever, no flash, just focus, work, and effort, private and quiet but a pleasant interview, had a bit of a chip on his shoulder but controlled it like an adult, knew he was and who he wasn't. Retired on top, quietly and humbly. I hope we can still admire that sort of public figure.  

I would like to invite you to fall on your head from 10-15 ft in the air if you feel this way because that's what she's actually dealing with.

You can piss and moan about her "quitting" all you want, but there's a reason that gymnasts and divers all over the world immediately understood the position she was in and old men on computers don't.

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49 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

He also didn't want to play for the Lions anymore because they'd only made the playoffs once since he got there and didn't sign or draft anybody worth a damn. He wanted to play for a winning team. He came really close to un-retiring to play for Washington. 

Yeah they were bad.  Him playing for that team for so long was like hanging a Picasso on the wall with a rusty nail. 

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