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NJDan

Any Precedent for Biles

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16 minutes ago, Francis said:

Well I think I made it clear that I believed that today's GOATs won't be tomorrow's GOATs, so I glad that we can (possibly) agree on that. 

As for the knowledge of sporting greats among youth now and in the future,  in 2019, the NY Times had a poll conducted that measured the degree to which a nationally representative sample of 6000 Americans could identify photographs of prominent public figures. Only 32% of Gen Z (13-22 year olds) could recognize Tom Brady.  If only 1/3 of that cohort could could identify him at the peak of his fame, how many people of that age will know about him 20 years from now?  Not many I would bet.

What I never said was that those greats will be totally forgotten.  Maybe more than any other sport, wrestling has always seemed to me to be to be a sport that remembers and revers its elders. And that it how it should be for all sports.

I think you have already forgotten what you said-- which is lucky for you.

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4 hours ago, NJDan said:

I think you have already forgotten what you said-- which is lucky for you.

What does this even mean?

When you haven't been throwing shade my way, you've been misrepresenting my statements throughout this thread.
I gave you a reputable fact that strongly supports my opinion. If you've got anything that backs up yours, this would be the time to put it out there.

Edited by Francis
comment follow-up

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On 7/29/2021 at 3:15 PM, uncle bernard said:

 She didn't quit on her team. She failed to perform, which happens in every sporting event.

I'm not judging one way or the other, but yeah, she did quit on her team in the middle of the team final.  No other way to say it.

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On 7/30/2021 at 9:30 AM, dman115 said:

Ok.  If you say you didn't throw vitriol her way than you convinced me, now you have to convince yourself.  And I see you as well can't understand my point.  I literally tried to understand your point and even mentioned it was a fair point but you should have just come out and said it versus saying she quit, she is selfish, and her excuse was "soft".  So go ahead and argue about how it should be okay to criticize her by doing just that, but it is also okay for me to call you out on it when you claim you aren't.

As for public discourse, I welcome it and often engage in it with the hopes of learning something.  And I agree...more people should do it, instead of being so closed minded they truly won't listen to any other dissenting opinions.

Sorry for being slow -- busy week and weekend, but I wanted to respond.  I appreciate your post, and your heartfelt defense of the athlete, who has had an extraordinary career in a sport that poses unique challenges to girls and young women that are hard to fathom.

I found Biles's more recent explanations helpful.  They focused on the twisties, which according to her and everything that's been written, are a fairly common and scary peril for gymnasts where they lose their bearing in the air, perhaps like a pilot in certain conditions.

Her explanation and emphasis on the twisties was a more substantive, different take than her original comments that she wasn't having fun and felt sad that she felt she wasn't competing for herself.  It's no doubt complicated but the things I've seen on the twisties, which reports keep saying happens a lot to a lot of gymnasts, seem less like a particular person's mental health episode and more like a common problem of physics and equilibrium.  

I don't know what most gymnasts with the twisties do when it happens in competition, but it seems reasonable to quit, or drop out or whatever verb you prefer, if you think it's necessary to avoid injury. 

I don't see that as heroic or particularly praiseworthy.  She's done a lot of things in the past that are and were and should always be celebrated in that way, but I don't view this as being in that category, and I think her initial comments were not very helpful.

That doesn't make her a bad person nor does it mean her choice was unacceptable. It just means that when there is public discussion of this very public figure's public choice I wish it was a little more balanced and open to these points.

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On 8/1/2021 at 11:49 PM, drag it said:

Sorry for being slow -- busy week and weekend, but I wanted to respond.  I appreciate your post, and your heartfelt defense of the athlete, who has had an extraordinary career in a sport that poses unique challenges to girls and young women that are hard to fathom.

I found Biles's more recent explanations helpful.  They focused on the twisties, which according to her and everything that's been written, are a fairly common and scary peril for gymnasts where they lose their bearing in the air, perhaps like a pilot in certain conditions.

Her explanation and emphasis on the twisties was a more substantive, different take than her original comments that she wasn't having fun and felt sad that she felt she wasn't competing for herself.  It's no doubt complicated but the things I've seen on the twisties, which reports keep saying happens a lot to a lot of gymnasts, seem less like a particular person's mental health episode and more like a common problem of physics and equilibrium.  

I don't know what most gymnasts with the twisties do when it happens in competition, but it seems reasonable to quit, or drop out or whatever verb you prefer, if you think it's necessary to avoid injury. 

I don't see that as heroic or particularly praiseworthy.  She's done a lot of things in the past that are and were and should always be celebrated in that way, but I don't view this as being in that category, and I think her initial comments were not very helpful.

That doesn't make her a bad person nor does it mean her choice was unacceptable. It just means that when there is public discussion of this very public figure's public choice I wish it was a little more balanced and open to these points.

Fair enough brother!  My apologies for getting defensive for SB. Be well my man!

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