Greco in a Nutshell

[dman115 513]

Just now, AnklePicker said:

Agree to some degree but our freestylers don’t train exclusively since they were 10 and they seem to fare just fine. Heck Burroughs didn’t train it at all until he was in college. It’s not just that. 

But wouldn't you agree folkstyle is easily translated into freestyle where it isn't for greco?

[LJB 2,093]

1 minute ago, AnklePicker said:

Agree to some degree but our freestylers don’t train exclusively since they were 10 and they seem to fare just fine. Heck Burroughs didn’t train it at all until he was in college. It’s not just that. 

Apples to typewriters...

 

[AnklePicker 643]

2 minutes ago, dman115 said:

But wouldn't you agree folkstyle is easily translated into freestyle where it isn't for greco?

More easily than GR sure, but still a very different style. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by AnklePicker

[LJB 2,093]

Just now, AnklePicker said:

More easily that GR sure, but still a very different style. 

In the feet it is very transferable on the feet, but, understand we are awful at par Terre for a specific reason...

[PSUSMC 312]

I'd like to see the 1 point awarded for step-outs done away with in Greco and have the offender put down on hands & knees in the center and the other wrestler awarded the opportunity to secure a reverse-lift lock and then have the whistle blown.

Going that route could create scoring 2 ways: The (obvious) 2 or 4 from the lifts or cautions and 1s from passivity and the option to go par-terre.

 

[Wrestleknownothing 1,448]

1 hour ago, LJB said:

In the feet it is very transferable on the feet, but, understand we are awful at par Terre for a specific reason...

It is quite noticeable the difference between a greco roman wrestler's par terre and a freestyler's par terre.

Par terre is obviously not a priority for freestylers. Having watched only freestyle until now it was interesting to me to see how much more dynamic par terre can be after watching greco roman.

I am assuming par terre is just a lot harder, so many (but not all) freestylers just wait out the 10-15 seconds on top without attempting to score because scoring on your feet is easier (or at least perceived to be). My cursory observation on greco is that it is much harder to score from your feet so there is a lot more focus on scoring from par terre.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Wrestleknownothing

[LJB 2,093]

2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

It is quite noticeable the difference between a greco roman wrestler's par terre and a freestyler's par terre.

Par terre is obviously not a priority for freestylers. Having watched only freestyle until now it was interesting to me to see how much more dynamic par terre can be after watching greco roman.

I am assuming par terre is just a lot harder, so many (but not all) freestylers just wait out the 10-15 seconds on top without attempting to score because scoring on your feet is easier (or at least perceived to be). My cursory observation on greco is that it is much harder to score from your feet so there is a lot more focus on scoring from par terre.

praise odin...

you are definitely on your way to understanding greco...

**tip of the cap**

[uncle bernard 1,112]

4 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

It is quite noticeable the difference between a greco roman wrestler's par terre and a freestyler's par terre.

Par terre is obviously not a priority for freestylers. Having watched only freestyle until now it was interesting to me to see how much more dynamic par terre can be after watching greco roman.

I am assuming par terre is just a lot harder, so many (but not all) freestylers just wait out the 10-15 seconds on top without attempting to score because scoring on your feet is easier (or at least perceived to be). My cursory observation on greco is that it is much harder to score from your feet so there is a lot more focus on scoring from par terre.

Not being able to grab legs also opens up some more dynamic lifts that you couldn't do in freestyle because you'd just get your ankles picked. Guts are a little less risky because you can't get knee picked. You can go out front for head pinches and not worry too much. You lose the ability to lace, but you gain so many different variations of guts and lifts.

Your last paragraph is spot on.

[Wrestleknownothing 1,448]

7 minutes ago, LJB said:

praise odin...

you are definitely on your way to understanding greco...

**tip of the cap**

 

3 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Not being able to grab legs also opens up some more dynamic lifts that you couldn't do in freestyle because you'd just get your ankles picked. Guts are a little less risky because you can't get knee picked. You can go out front for head pinches and not worry too much. You lose the ability to lace, but you gain so many different variations of guts and lifts.

Your last paragraph is spot on.

Hmm, I am thinking of upgrading my user name to Wrestleknowalittle.

Nah, lets not get too far over our skis. Next thing you know I will be accepting bets with Frank Rizzo.

[LJB 2,093]

i pleased that it feels like some actual progress has been made in this thread...

really...

actually pleased...

[GoNotQuietly 1,168]

All of which is why I support the ultimate Olympic wrestling style: Freestyle neutral with Greco par-terre and position choice awarded on all pushouts.

[LJB 2,093]

3 minutes ago, GoNotQuietly said:

All of which is why I support the ultimate Olympic wrestling style: Freestyle neutral with Greco par-terre and position choice awarded on all pushouts.

if there was a gun to my head, i would prefer dirty greco to this...

but...

i don't think greco is broken as is, so, what the hell do i know?

[grappler111 11]

All of which is why I support the ultimate Olympic wrestling style: Freestyle neutral with Greco par-terre and position choice awarded on all pushouts.

I'm agree.
Freestyle neutral with 2 more point for upper body takedowns/throws and greco par terre.


Inviato dal mio LG-H870 utilizzando Tapatalk

[uncle bernard 1,112]

7 minutes ago, LJB said:

i pleased that it feels like some actual progress has been made in this thread...

really...

actually pleased...

If you could make a change to increase scoring attempts in neutral, what would you do?

Do you think going back to the old over-under clinch could help? I've seen it suggested that getting rid of forced par terre altogether would help because it would force guys to have to score on their feet instead of wait for their chance on top, but I'd be very hesitant to eliminate the only position we see consistent scoring in the first place.

[Shiraz123 822]

Lol, don't mess around with FS. It's the best it's been in basically forever. I'd take out the slip throw rule but that's minor. 

[GoNotQuietly 1,168]

Just now, uncle bernard said:

If you could make a change to increase scoring attempts in neutral, what would you do?

Do you think going back to the old over-under clinch could help? I've seen it suggested that getting rid of forced par terre altogether would help because it would force guys to have to score on their feet instead of wait for their chance on top, but I'd be very hesitant to eliminate the only position we see consistent scoring in the first place.

We have talked about this many times, but I 100% think smaller circles would solve most of the problems with Greco. That said, I mostly agree with LJB that Greco is actually pretty sweet as is, despite the USA being atrocious at it.

[GoNotQuietly 1,168]

1 minute ago, Shiraz123 said:

Lol, don't mess around with FS. It's the best it's been in basically forever. I'd take out the slip throw rule but that's minor. 

In Neutral..totally agree. Infinite leg-lace glitch is dumb and par-terre in FS is pretty boring overall, though.

[uncle bernard 1,112]

2 minutes ago, GoNotQuietly said:

We have talked about this many times, but I 100% think smaller circles would solve most of the problems with Greco. That said, I mostly agree with LJB that Greco is actually pretty sweet as is, despite the USA being atrocious at it.

I forgot about the smaller circles. I'm also on board for that. Maybe that plus choice of position, so we get more par terre action too?

[LJB 2,093]

4 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

If you could make a change to increase scoring attempts in neutral, what would you do?

Do you think going back to the old over-under clinch could help? I've seen it suggested that getting rid of forced par terre altogether would help because it would force guys to have to score on their feet instead of wait for their chance on top, but I'd be very hesitant to eliminate the only position we see consistent scoring in the first place.

 

3 minutes ago, GoNotQuietly said:

We have talked about this many times, but I 100% think smaller circles would solve most of the problems with Greco. That said, I mostly agree with LJB that Greco is actually pretty sweet as is, despite the USA being atrocious at it.

this^^^...

ivanov has shown that it increases action exponentially...

[Shiraz123 822]

7 minutes ago, GoNotQuietly said:

In Neutral..totally agree. Infinite leg-lace glitch is dumb and par-terre in FS is pretty boring overall, though.

Par terre in FS is like 7 seconds and you have to get a takedown to get there, so something interesting happened prior to the few short seconds of nothing, assuming the guy on top fails to get a turn or lace. I prefer that to inforced par terre where the ref has to choreograph the guys into position and many times has to do it multiple times because of hands not in the right place, guys getting up too quickly or whatever else. That there is some of the worst stuff to watch in the sport. FS with the current rules just flows perfectly in my opinion. It was garbage for many years up until 2013. And I don't think anyone has really terrorised a whole tournament with a lace since Akgul in 2015, lol.

I would be interested in seeing Greco with a smaller circle. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Shiraz123

[Mphillips 1,657]

4 hours ago, snapspinscore said:

I took a long break from posting on this forum, but man oh man, LJB has to be the most snarky/condescending human being I have ever seen on a forum. He has got to be the most unlikeable guy on here. I don't know how some of you constantly engage with this guy; and his posting style?

 

Guy's a sweetheart. just have to get to know him and not make ignorant comments. It's not hard...

[LJB 2,093]

1 minute ago, Mphillips said:

Guy's a sweetheart. just have to get to know him and not make ignorant comments. It's not hard...

that is pretty much what i have been telling people my entire life...

don't make ignorant comments, or, at the very least preface your ignorant comments with i am totally ignorant of the topic but i'm going to offer an opinion on it anyway...

i can respect honesty...

plus...

as the great sage josey wales said...

a man's got to know his limitations, son...

[NJDan 1,061]

16 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

Guy's a sweetheart. just have to get to know him and not make ignorant comments. It's not hard...

The better you know him the worse he is.

[LJB 2,093]

6 minutes ago, NJDan said:

The better you know him the worse he is.

here is a hint for you...

that ignorant part of his statement?

that is you...

i'm not sayin'...

but...

i'm just sayin...

[Wrestleknownothing 1,448]

43 minutes ago, LJB said:

that is pretty much what i have been telling people my entire life...

don't make ignorant comments, or, at the very least preface your ignorant comments with i am totally ignorant of the topic but i'm going to offer an opinion on it anyway...

i can respect honesty...

plus...

as the great sage josey wales said...

a man's got to know his limitations, son...

Harry Callahan